[Curbside Prophet]

Close minded would be not understanding genetics and the plight gambling with genes can have on a population of animals. Close minded would be overlooking a wealth of animals and buying one because it looks great this week. Close minded would be accepting irresponsible breeding as the best alternative. Self righteous would be not seeing the link between all these things, and not caring to protect people made breeds. And no one complains about the breeds we have because they all have histories hundreds to thousands of years old and they served people for many different reasons back then...but genetics was also less understood than it is today. The visionaries for today's designer dogs have got it all messed up, and that's the problem.

[MagicToller]

The visionaries for today's designer dogs have got it all messed up, and that's the problem.

We should really look into getting a clapping emotiocon.

[tully]

Thanks Peace, I felt like I was standing alone . Sorry curb you and I have very different views. We have so many breeds of dogs and they all came out of breeding different dogs together. I look at my pup as a mutt and frankly I think mutts are more healthy and have less problems with genetics than over bred breeds. So, I am not jiggy with your points on breeding. I think you have it backwards .

The bottom line is we both must love our animals or we wouldn't be on this forum. Maybe we just need to agree to disagree. I am sure we are both good people with good hearts! I like both the standard poodle and the Golden and I think they are a great mix. He is a good hardy breed and that to me is what we are all wanting for our dogs.

It is OK to buy a dog from a breeder just as it is OK for people to only get a dog from the pound or rescue. We are all called in our own ways. One way is not better or more profound then the other!

[Kerry]

It's pretty simple, just as people meticulously customize a cup of coffee to suit their mood...a lowfat, decaf, mocha latte with chocolate sprinkles is particularly good...people want to design their pets to match their lifestyle

What's wrong with that? The more my pet matches my lifestyle, the less chance I will give him away to a shelter.

[Chloef_2799]

I think if we showed people the cycle of people get dog, people breed dog, people sell puppies, puppies are not "right" for family, puppy goes to shelter, shelter takes x amount of tax dollars to care for puppy for several days/weeks, pup is adopted or put to sleep. If pup is put down that costs x amount of tax dollars. As cut and dry and as un-friendly as that sounds it is the truth and people need to see that.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by tully

Thanks Peace, I felt like I was standing alone . Sorry curb you and I have very different views. We have so many breeds of dogs and they all came out of breeding different dogs together. I look at my pup as a mutt and frankly I think mutts are more healthy and have less problems with genetics than over bred breeds. So, I am not jiggy with your points on breeding. I think you have it backwards: .

The bottom line is we both must love our animals or we wouldn't be on this forum. Maybe we just need to agree to disagree. I am sure we are both good people with good hearts! I like both the standard poodle and the Golden and I think they are a great mix. He is a good hardy breed and that to me is what we are all wanting for our dogs.

It is OK to buy a dog from a breeder just as it is OK for people to only get a dog from the pound or rescue. We are all called in our own ways. One way is not better or more profound then the other!

A) Mutts are not necessarily more healthy than purebreds- they CAN be, but they can also not be. The way to go about improving health involves a lot of genetic research and testing and crossing of SIMILAR breeds (Ie- poodle and golden are not similar) - designer breeders DON'T do that. If you have a lab with HD and cross it to a poodle with HD, that dog is probably going to STILL have HD even though it's a mutt. Also, they generally begin with lower quality breeding stock- so crossing two inbred low quality purebred dogs isn't going to do much of anything. You'd be much much much better off looking into a breeder who has health tested for generations if health istruly what is most important to you.

B) Your goldendoodle is not a breed- a breed breeds true and goldendoodles do not. I'm sure you didn't mean it like that, but it's a misuse of the word.

c) People have a right to go to a responsible breeder. The problem with designer breeders is they are not responsible. They pump out dogs at an alarming rate with no health testing, no proven stock (in anything usually), and little concern for the actual dogs. Many purebred breeders aren't responsible either. I don't support either. It is up to the individual to research breeders and wanting a designer dog to me is in no way an excuse to go to a bad breeder. It promotes practises that are unethical.

And to Kerry's post, it IS a problem to advertise dogs as no hassle, little work pets because they will be JUST AS MUCH work as any other dog out there. People think they can get away with doing nothing and that equates with many more dogs being dumped.

And yes, now I'll be labeled as the resident purebred snob.

[tully]

I did not read the article you are all talking about. I am just letting you know I disagree with what you are saying about desinger dogs. You can no more generalize about them as you could a German Shep.
OK, you are a breed snob LOL, just kidding!
Look, I have had both. I have had mutts, full breeds and now my first desginer dog. I am going to disagree with you in the fact that yes my pup is basically a mutt. My mutts have faired better in the long run the my breeds but that could just be a conwinkidink!
I am sorry but I think you are all being a little to serious! I think the Universe is quite expansive and nothing is black and white. There is room for all of us.
I don't spend a lot of my time focusing on rescue that is not my calling. If it is your calling, God Bless.
I love my pups, I believe God sent them to me and they are my responsibility. I am not in to condeming others for what they chose. No one ever knows the big picture except for the Top Dog upstairs!

[Laurelin]

I guess what I don't get is how people can condone careless breeding of any kind of dog- purebred or mixed nowadays when we have so much more technology and knowledge available to us.

Oh, and as a note, my mutts have had far worse health problems than my purebreds, perhaps a fluke, who knows.

[Lorina]

I can't go from being a person who's loaded the bodies of euthanized dogs into a morgue, then from the morgue to the crematory, and coming into work in the morning to smell of burnt flesh when I worked at a shelter, to being someone who sees just how much people pay for mix or poorly bred purebred puppies at pet stores or from BYBs (lots of clients bring in their paperwork to the vet with receipts attached), and not feel something.

No, that individual who buys a pet store, mill or BYB pup is not directly responsible for the dead dogs at the shelter. My anger and sadness is more directed at the breeders. I just can't get past the feeling that people are financially rewarding those who willingly contribute to pet overpopulation. Some may feel that one person buying one puppy isn't going to make a difference, but that's like saying one person chucking trash out their car window isn't polluting.

[tully]

I think there are breeds that are totally over bred at this point. What about that? And, my point has still not been addressed. At some point, we had to breed two different types of dogs to get a new breed. We have done this more than once. Why does everything have to be all or nothing? You can get a dog with the best papers in the world and still have a problem. So, we can focus on all the good stuff or the bad stuff. Yes, we need to be savvy consumers and responsible for our pets. It is a pretty good guess all of us on this forum are. Like I said, some of these designer dogs will go by the way side but some will stay. And, I will bet you that one day the goldendoodle is going to be considered a breed. We can wait and see

I think it is wrong of you to judge people that decide to buy a dog verses getting a dog at rescue. If your heart is leading you to do that, wonderful. I have done both. I have gotten dogs out of rescue and I have purchased dogs from breeder.

[Laurelin]

No, you're missing MY point. It's fine to get a dog from a breeder- there is nothing wrong with that. However, look at these breeders of these dogs and tell me that they are breeding up to the standard that a world full of way too many dogs should be breeding?

I'm just as guilty as anyone else who has fallen for this. I have a girl sheltie whom I absolutely adore. She's 11 years old now and healthy- thank God. I got her when I was a kid from a couple who wanted their dogs to have puppies because they thought they both made good pets. I spent $250 on her with her AKC papers and everything- doesn't sound too bad, does it? The owners were nice enough people that loved their dogs, but they were hardly qualified to be breeders. They didn't test their dogs for any genetic issues, they put an add in the paper and sold their puppies to whoever came and paid $250 assuming that the dog would get a good home. Like I said, they weren't horrible people, but their breeding wasn't responsible and neither was purchasing a dog from them. By purchasing from them, I condoned all their breeding practises. I've learned my lesson since then and all my other dogs have been from responsible breeders since then. Doesn't mean I love Nikki any less, it's just I've realized I made a HUGE mistake. Buying a purebred from a person or a mill like that is just the same as buying a designer dog. Luckily with a purebred you can actually find people who put the quality and health of their dogs above anything else.

Find me a goldendoodle breeder that does genetic testing and thoroughly screens owners the way a reputable purebred breeder does and then maybe I'll change my mind.

[Keno's Mom]

I got him from a great breeder who I would recommend to anyone! He is our clown and makes us all laugh. I could not imagine not having him. Soo, I have a problem with this one sided conversation! If you don't know dogs, especially puppies, it doesn't matter what the breed is. There are those that will dump them and those that wont! And, he doesn't shed, that is not why I got him, but he doesn't. The Labdoodle sheds much more and again you have the Lab to contend with. I am not saying every designer dog should be created as I don't know about all of them. I can tell you I would get a goldendoodle again in a minute! I love him!

A "great breeder" does NOT produce mixed breed dogs or "designer dogs" - so this so called great breeder IMO is nothing more then a backyard breeder or a puppy mill type that is out to produce dogs for money - not to IMPROVE a purebred dog!

There is NO guarentee that any "poo" cross will not shed - you might have gotten on that didnt, but the next time, you might end up with one that sheds just as much as the normal lab or golden retriever. I'm willing to bet this "great breeder" also promotes the dogs as non-shedding or "AKC registered" or another puppy mill registration.

If you really want this type of dog, next one you get, please search the shelters first to get one and not buy one from the backyard breeder/puppy mill breeder.

BTW a labradoodle is a lab and poodle cross. A goldendoodle is a golden retriver and poodle cross



One other thing (someone mentioned cockapoos being around for 40 yrs). While it may be true they've been around that long they are STILL NOT A LEGIT PUREBRED DOG. They are still a mixed breed and cannot be registered in any legit association (AKC, Canadian Kennel Club (CKC), or UKC)......if they have been around that long, don't you think you'd have some consistency on type to become a purebred dog and go for legit registrations? Something wrong with this picture isn't it? Since they don't breed true, they are not a purebred dog but I know "breeders" try to make it seem so.....want to debate the "cockapoo"?

[MagicToller]

I will bet you that one day the goldendoodle is going to be considered a breed. We can wait and see

The "Doodle" breeds are already considered and marketed as legitamate breeds by fake registries and greedy ignorant people out to make a dollar. The question is not IF they will be, it's WHO considers them. The AKC? I think not.

[Captbob]

Originally Posted by MagicToller

The "Doodle" breeds are already considered and marketed as legitamate breeds by fake registries and greedy ignorant people out to make a dollar. The question is not IF they will be, it's WHO considers them. The AKC? I think not.

Well if the AKC registers dogs from puppy mills, why wouldn't they register a designer dog?

[MagicToller]

Well if the AKC registers dogs from puppy mills, why wouldn't they register a designer dog?

Well this is true, that and the whole Petland Co. incident.. but I blame tainted people and breeders more than I do the AKC for registering milled puppies. The AKC is far from perfect, and carrying the title of AKC doesn't mean much either - but what I meant was recognition to participate in the conformation ring and performance events.

[Kerry]

And to Kerry's post, it IS a problem to advertise dogs as no hassle, little work pets because they will be JUST AS MUCH work as any other dog out there. People think they can get away with doing nothing and that equates with many more dogs being dumped.

If the dog is being advertised as "no hassle", I agree with you. I haven't seen that anywhere.
But you are categorizing all people who buy designer dogs as:
#1. not understanding the responsibilities of owning a dog
#2. being unwilling to spay/neuter
#3. being more likely to dump their dog.

Again, my point is that impulsive pet buying is the problem. Even with the right questions, a good breeder can't identify owners who will be overwhelmed by a dog. "Do you have a fenced in yard?", "Are you aware that the vet bills will be expensive?", "Are you willing to train your dog daily and attend obedience classes?", "Are you ready for the grooming and shedding involved with this dog?"....all someone has to do is say, "yes, yes, yes" and off goes the puppy. Lots of people think they are ready to own a dog, but they're not. But the type of dog doesn't factor into the problem.

I really would like to understand how you think a cockapoo or labradoodle owner is more likely to dump their dog than the owner of a purebred Golden Retriever or Springer Spaniel? And please don't just repeat the same old songs about quality and genetics and "it's not a breed" and millions of dogs are euthanised every year. Those all sound good, but don't address the issue.

And I disagree that all dogs are the same amount of work. No way. My Golden required daily vacuuming and my cockapoo requires no additional vacuuming. And the less I have to get that vacuum out of the closet, the easier my day is! I wanted a poodle mix for that reason. Little dogs are easier all around, in my book. NOT training-wise, of course.

Curbside, I just took the "Designer Dog Quiz" you posted.
So what is the point of that? You could put two labs that look alike or two beagles or two rotties....what does it prove? Ok. I can get a nice looking dog from a breeder or from a shelter.
But I thought you couldn't get a designer dog from a "breeder".
That quiz does nothing to support your ideas.

[peace36]

yeah what Tully says! I'll just save my typing energy for another thread because I have already written my opion or Tully has...Good Job Tully.

[Kerry]

One other thing (someone mentioned cockapoos being around for 40 yrs). While it may be true they've been around that long they are STILL NOT A LEGIT PUREBRED DOG. They are still a mixed breed and cannot be registered in any legit association (AKC, Canadian Kennel Club (CKC), or UKC)......if they have been around that long, don't you think you'd have some consistency on type to become a purebred dog and go for legit registrations?

I wasn't trying to say that the cockapoo is a registered breed. I was saying that 40 + years does not qualify as a "fad". Please don't change around the meaning of my words.

What is the advantage of being "legit"? Some interesting information:

"There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" and quality are one and the same. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog."

The AKC does not guarantee the accuracy of the information on a dog’s "blue slip". The breeder, on the honor system, supplies this information to the AKC. The AKC is currently using DNA testing during it’s inspections to verify the parentage of dogs on the premises, but this is only done on a very small percentage of breeders.

The AKC does not guarantee the quality of any dog. When a dog is eligible for AKC registration, all that means is that the breeder is in good standing with the AKC and both the sire and the dam (as recorded by the breeder) are registered with the AKC. Blind dogs, deaf dogs, and dogs with physical deformities are every bit as eligible for registration as top show dogs.

So my cockapoo doesn't have AKC papers...doesn't mean much to me. A healthy cocker spaniel was crossed with a healthy poodle. Result: healthy cockapoo.

[Keno's Mom]

When a dog is registered in a legit association it means that the dog is purebred and can be shown IF it meets the written standard of the breed.

Mixes and designer dogs cannot be shown cause they are not a true breed of dog. They are a cross of two different purebred dogs - which makes them a mutt - not a dog that is registerable because its parents were!

As far as cockapoos not being a fad cause they've been around 40 yrs - tell me WHY after 40 yrs is it not considered to be a breed? Because the dogs don't breed true? Or is it cause no one bothered to make them breed true and become a legit purebred dog that will breed true and consistant.

[Sawyer]

Th problem is the lack of understanding of why designer dogs are a problem in the first place. The first time I ever heard of a designer dog was watching the news - they did a piece on a new breed that does not shed, is good with families, and easy to train - the labradoodle. Honestly, it didn't occur to me then that this was a problem...after all, it was on the news. It wasn't until I researched our own dog that I realized the problem.

CP mentioned that the "visionaries for today's designer dogs have got it all messed up, and that's the problem." And I agree, but on a different note, their vision is dead on: create a product that sells, at any cost.