Dog and children

tmansdogs · 01-25-2007, 09:25 PM

I have two standard poodles named chloe (3yrs) and sophie (2yrs). The other night sophie attacked chloe fighting for a flashlight beam on the lawn. Chloe defended herself and went for the throat and severed sophies jugular vien. I saved sophie by putting pressure on the wound and taking her to the er vet immediatly. My delema is this: I have 3 young children. chloe has never hurt any of our kids and after the altercation she and sophie were standing together as if nothing ever happened. she obviously had no intention of killing her. we had to give sophie up as she has nipped at the kids before and picks fights with other dogs. should we give chloe up as well or keep her? are the chances of her hurting the kids greater now that she has tasted blood and attacked in defense? Any help would be so greatly appreciated. Thanks

DogAdvocat · 01-26-2007, 12:23 AM

I would suggest you contact an animal behaviorist and have your dog evaluated. Young children should always be supervised when with dogs. I don't really subscribe to the idea that a dog is more dangerous after having tasted blood, and since any dog can bite, there's always that risk. Even if a dog is dog aggressive, it isn't necessarily people aggressive.

I do hope that your other dog went to a rescue, and not a pound.

tmansdogs · 01-26-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogAdvocat

I would suggest you contact an animal behaviorist and have your dog evaluated. Young children should always be supervised when with dogs. I don't really subscribe to the idea that a dog is more dangerous after having tasted blood, and since any dog can bite, there's always that risk. Even if a dog is dog aggressive, it isn't necessarily people aggressive.

I do hope that your other dog went to a rescue, and not a pound.

Thanks for your opinion. I will contact my vet tomorrow to discuss this. The very thing my mother told me tonight was that once they taste blood they are broken. I don't really believe in this but it raises thought and concern.

By the way my other dog went to a rescue, not a pound.

DogAdvocat · 01-26-2007, 02:04 AM

Remember, a vet is not a trainer, and not a behaviorist. If your vet has taken training in animal behavior or is a qualified trainer, that's fine, but most have not. Vets are about internal medicine, about the body, not the mind. However, your vet may be able to recommend a good behaviorist.

And by the way, mother's are a great resource for "old wives tales".

rrhodes · 01-26-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogAdvocat

And by the way, mother's are a great resource for "old wives tales".

Here, here, My Chow/retriever mix that passed away a couple of years ago attacked a stray that tried to attack me and tasted plenty of blood. She was 6 when the attack happened. She died at the age of 15 and NEVER attacked bit or nipped a person. In fact a stray cat would come into the yard everytime she was outside and they would play as if they were both dogs..

More than likely your dog decided that it was time to establish Alpha status and went a bit too far. The fact that they got along after the altercation is a very good sign IMHO.

+1 on contacting an animal behaviorist just to be safe.

crazydog06 · 01-26-2007, 08:31 AM

I don't believe the tasting blood thing either! All dogs bite! My dog got into a fight with my neighbors Rotty several times last year but is very submissve towards kids and IS ALWAYS SUPERVISED! Now my dog won't go near the Rotty for fear of being bite! She learned who was boss in their house!

I agree, check with a dog behavorist or trainer.

sobreeze · 01-26-2007, 08:38 AM

dogs have to bite they dont have hands to just slap each other to get there piont across if i got rid of a dog every time they got in a fight with each other i would be changing out dogs daily you know you dont like every one you meet well dogs dont always like each other all the time even my family there was 7 kids in my family i cant stand 4 of them i would bite them to if they got in my face and dogs that taste blood are not ruined they can not talk like us so they cant tell you what realy started the fight talk to a trainer or someone that deals with problems with dogs ggod luck

tirluc · 01-26-2007, 08:43 AM

if the "taste of blood" theory were true than how could you explain the gun dogs that bring back the bloody game....or the dogs that are fed a raw diet? ...or, better yet, the BC/Aussie mix that had aggression issues that i was working w/....on the 1st day she managed to get me and drew blood (and cleaned it after) and to this day i can't GET her to bite me even in play....

but, yeah, have a behaviorist do an eval on her and then you can be a little more assured.....but like mentioned above--all dogs can bite and even the sweetest one can/will if the circumstances are "right".....don't allow small children and the dog together unsupervised.....

RobDar · 01-26-2007, 12:55 PM

kind of odd behavior for standard poodles...
This is a really hard judgement for anyone to make without evaluating the dog personally...
My opinion is...the "dog tasting blood and then being wild and aggressive" is a bunch of hooey. Aggression is either in a dogs personality or it is not. If the dog has never been aggressive towards the children at any other time, it is not real likely she will be now.
I will use the Coonhound as an example...
The hunters...well some hunters...let the hounds do what they call "wooling" the Coon. That is they let the dogs have the corpse and the dogs...well you get the picture, no need to be graphic...they say this ramps up their prey drive and makes them better hunting dogs...and it does...but here is the thing..
1. I have never in 10 years of rescue ever heard that allowing the dog to "wool" a coon that the "aggression" has transferred to people.
2. the hunters could achieve the same effect with a rawhide treat because it is a performance=reward training. It is not the blood and the wooling of the coon that makes them better hunters...it is getting a reward for doing a good job...does not really matter what the reward is ( the point is that it is not the blood that makes them better more "wild and determined" hunters)

We have had our share of scuffles in the rescue...and a vet trip or two for a few of the more serious injuries...and it has never changed the dogs behavior towards us or other dogs. If a dog is a jerk, the dog is a jerk...if it is normally sweet and patient, it will go back to being sweet and patient once the threat is removed.

atldoglover · 01-26-2007, 01:36 PM

Anything with teeth has the ability to bite. I don't believe in "once a biter, always a biter". There are plenty of dogs that come from abused homes, some who were made to fight, they end up being rescued and rehabilitated. I do strongly agree that your poodle needs to be evaluated by a professional because...well, better safe than sorry.

OwnedBySix · 01-26-2007, 05:17 PM

Any dogs can get into a scuffle...usually it is over food, treats, toys, or attention. I'm sorry you had to give Sophie up...what happened when she nipped?

And no, I don't think Chloe is any more likely to bite your children now than before the fight. However, children need to be supervised ALWAYS and need to respect the dog's space ALWAYS.

If you are concerned, yes, seek a behaviorist's opinion (not a vet!).

tmansdogs · 01-26-2007, 11:12 PM

Thanks to all of you for your care and concern. This is not easy on my family. Unfortunatly we had to give up sophie do to her nipping at my kids. She did get better toward the end with my kids but she began to get more aggressive toward chloe. The great thing is that she is alive. I could not however trust her with my 10 mos old girl. Thanks again to all of you for your support in this manner. Please keep it coming!