[German Shepherd Lover]

The problem with citing these stories, and condemning a whole breed because of a news report is the your own breed is subject to the same stories. Now if you are to be fair, you'll condemn all German Shepherds because of this news item: By Dogadvocate...............


You are absolutely right Dogadvocate, If I continued to see these types of stories like you pointed out I would condemn them. Fortunately this is the first article I have seen about a German Shepherd. I have had them since I was 5 years old and will quickly admidt that you have to be careful when strangers are first introduced to them but as far as seeing horror stories day after day, it just isn't happening... Show me story after story, day after day and I will condemn them regardless of them being my favorite animal. I love dogs , but I love people more...

This is like comparing oranges to apples... Lets be honest now and stop trying to sugar coat the Pit Bull ....:

[DogAdvocat]

Originally Posted by GitSol

I think that breed specific legislation causes all sorts of problems - it drives breeding underground so that the few responsible breeders stop breeding and the backyard breeders and illegal fighting breeders take over making the situation a whole lot worse. But that's another dicussion all together...

The same irresponsible breeders continue to breed underground, effectively making the breed exactly what people fear. There would no longer be confusion about good or bad, they'd all be bad. I guess at least that way the good dogs wouldn't be targetted along with the bad, because there wouldn't be any good ones.

Which is why I think it's so important to stop protesting BSLs and start promoting BREEDER Specific Laws. Promote the good and get rid of the bad breeders. Develop legislation that would support good breeding practices and outlaw irresponsibility - in all breeds.

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

The problem with citing these stories, and condemning a whole breed because of a news report is the your own breed is subject to the same stories. Now if you are to be fair, you'll condemn all German Shepherds because of this news item: By Dogadvocate...............


You are absolutely right Dogadvocate, If I continued to see these types of stories like you pointed out I would condemn them. Fortunately this is the first article I have seen about a German Shepherd. I have had them since I was 5 years old and will quickly admidt that you have to be careful when strangers are first introduced to them but as far as seeing horror stories day after day, it just isn't happening... Show me story after story, day after day and I will condemn them regardless of them being my favorite animal. I love dogs , but I love people more...

This is like comparing oranges to apples... Lets be honest now and stop trying to sugar coat the Pit Bull ....:

I have no interest in targetting any breed with negativity, so a day-after-day search isn't in my plans. HOWEVER, doesn't it strike you odd that it only took me a minute to find that story about a GSD attack on google? And it's a current story, not something from months ago. So my point remains, if you don't want your breed targetted (and it did used to be a breed that was feared), then don't you think it unfair to target other breeds as a whole? Should I assume that since I found this story so easily, that ALL GSDs are bad?

Originally Posted by cdubb68

To paraphrase, it basically says that people can learn a lot about stereotyping via the way we do it to dogs. Our quick judgement of similar groups of people/dogs ends up biting us in the a**, no pun intended.

And yet a certain amount of stereotyping is acceptable and common in the dog world. We accept that the various breeds will follow the breed type that they were originally bred for. Border Collies herd, Dachshunds dig, Bassets follow their nose wherever it may lead, etc. etc. We advise people when they are choosing a breed, that they consider the stereotypes of the different breeds to find the right one for their lifestyle.

[gilbertsmom]

I worked as a dog groomer for eight years. We groomed Pit Bulls, but only if the owner put a muzzle on them before they even entered the grooming room. It wasn't only because they were a so-called

aggressive breed

. It was the idea that if they did attack, they are capable of doing sooo much damage. Not a chance we could take in the shop. In eight years I was bit five times. Three Cockers, a Lhasa and a Shih Tzu. (Those flat face muzzles really don't work well at all!) Didn't get a lot of GSDs in the shop. But in walking my own dogs, they have been attacked twice-by German Shepards (different dogs). I'm sure smaller dogs bite way more often, we just don't hear about it since they usually don't do as much damage.

[DogAdvocat]

Originally Posted by Angel69nznz

I have personally never had an issue with Pit Bulls, the ones I've met have been beautiful friendly dogs. However, I spoke to a Dog Psychologist who has been studying dog behavior for over 25 years about the breed and he gave me the so called psychology behind the breed, here's what he said: Because Pit Bulls were originally bred for fighting they have a behaviour pattern unlike any other dog, when we introduce a dog into our home one of the first things we do (or are supposed to do) is assert dominance over it, to gain respect, and this is a relatively easy thing to do, unfortunately Pit Bulls can not traditionally be dominated, owners think they have the dog dominated and they argue the point till they are blue in the face, or they think they are "Alpha" but in Pits this is damn near genetically impossible, what can then happen is when the dog feels its dominance threatened by anyone, whether the owner or someone else, they turn, this can happen at any time, for any reason, or may never happen at all, MAY being the operative word.

Does he factor in that they were originally bred to be "dog aggressive" and not "people aggressive"? Human alpha over these dogs was a must or they were culled. The handlers HAD to be able to pull the dogs apart. If you've ever seen any fight footage (which is truly gruesome), the dogs are frenzied to get at each other, and they never turn on the handlers who have their hands right on them. Normally, people are warned to never get between two fighting dogs of any breed (been there, done that), and yet the fight handlers did it all the time when separating the dogs.

[iwantmypup]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

The problem with citing these stories, and condemning a whole breed because of a news report is the your own breed is subject to the same stories. Now if you are to be fair, you'll condemn all German Shepherds because of this news item: By Dogadvocate...............


You are absolutely right Dogadvocate, If I continued to see these types of stories like you pointed out I would condemn them. Fortunately this is the first article I have seen about a German Shepherd. I have had them since I was 5 years old and will quickly admidt that you have to be careful when strangers are first introduced to them but as far as seeing horror stories day after day, it just isn't happening... Show me story after story, day after day and I will condemn them regardless of them being my favorite animal. I love dogs , but I love people more...

This is like comparing oranges to apples... Lets be honest now and stop trying to sugar coat the Pit Bull ....:

I cant believe you think Dogadvocat is trying to sugar coat the pit bull. While you saying that the GSD are the best...they have attacked people and maybe that wont make you love them less but dont get all mad at the people who love PB's saying they are the besst// I mean come on!

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

The problem with citing these stories, and condemning a whole breed because of a news report is the your own breed is subject to the same stories. Now if you are to be fair, you'll condemn all German Shepherds because of this news item: By Dogadvocate...............


You are absolutely right Dogadvocate, If I continued to see these types of stories like you pointed out I would condemn them. Fortunately this is the first article I have seen about a German Shepherd. I have had them since I was 5 years old and will quickly admidt that you have to be careful when strangers are first introduced to them but as far as seeing horror stories day after day, it just isn't happening... Show me story after story, day after day and I will condemn them regardless of them being my favorite animal. I love dogs , but I love people more...

This is like comparing oranges to apples... Lets be honest now and stop trying to sugar coat the Pit Bull ....:

Oko ok lets be honest.. do you seriously think that pit bulls are horrible? And if anyone you are seriously sugar coating the gsd so dont even

[German Shepherd Lover]

I felt that an honest answer was deserved to the original author of this post and that is what I have inserted.....

If you want a Pit Bull, by all means have one........

I will stick with my German Sheperds.....

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

I felt that an honest answer was deserved to the original author of this post and that is what I have inserted.....

I prefer your honest opinion GSL. To have a enlightning discussion, there has to be a difference in understanding or opinion. To pose only one side of an argument doesn't give an unobjective reader anything to think about.

[MagicToller]

Fortunately this is the first article I have seen about a German Shepherd.

Then you did not venture far enough.

[German Shepherd Lover]

Maybe according to Majictoller I didn't venture far enough, but I didn't have to leave the port to find the articles about the PB's, now did I ?

[DogAdvocat]

Originally Posted by German Shepherd Lover

Maybe according to Majictoller I didn't venture far enough, but I didn't have to leave the port to find the articles about the PB's, now did I ?

My boat was still tied to the dock when I found the GSD article.

[iwantmypup]

Ooh hmm lookey here what i found just by going "German Shepherd attack" and on the first page and number three "


Little Boy Mauled by German Shepherd

by Steve, Friday, July 22, 2005

I don't normally blog about specific dog attack cases, but I wanted to point this one out, in light of "gestapo-style tactics" targeted towards owners of pit bulls.

In this case, a six-year old boy in St. Joseph, Saskatchewan, was mauled by a german shepherd. The dog, which belonged to a neighbor, put deep cuts into the boy's face, around his left-eye. He will be requiring plastic surgery.

As a result, the mother wants the town to force all dog owners to keep their dogs "locked up". AS IF, laws in Saskatchewan permit dog owners to let their pooches run wild.

Well, I don't know what the laws are in SK, or in St. Joseph, but if I assume the city and/or the province already has laws against free-roaming dogs, then punishing all dog owners for the sins of just one, is retarded. The town needs more law enforcement officers, not more laws.

But this points out that targeting pit bull owners in an effort to prevent dog attacks, is short-sighted. Any breed can attack. Thus, as long as there are irresponsible dog owners, there will continue to be dog attacks.

In a free society, people will instinctively test the limits of freedom. That's why we have law enforcement officers, and this is why we need more of them. Creating more laws to address lawbreakers, is an oxymoron. '"

[German Shepherd Lover]

I still wouldn't have a Pit Bull and will continue to have German Shepherds.

I would although have any, and I mean any dog that I owned, be quickly destroyed if it ever turned on any person for no reason.

The only justification I would ever let a dog have to turn on a human is when he is actually protected someone from a real and not perceived threat. That is what a well trained dog is all about...

I didn't even have to do a search for the article about the PIT Bull in Ohio today.... It appeared on the TV all by itself...

Still wouldn't own a Pit Bull.. Enjoy yours and don't turn your back!!!!!

[MagicToller]

Maybe according to Majic Troller I didn't venture far enough, but I didn't have to leave the port to find the articles about the PB's, now did I ?

Perhaps you miscomprehend. I'm not in this to win a little piss contest like a fourth grader.

Yes, Pitbulls are notoriously accused for being bully breeds. Fluctuating trends in this country have knocked down your own breed from the number one slot, and pushed up Rotties and Pits. The point in the advocacy here is yes, opinions are a right of passage, but commenting as you did in blind flame against this breed is simply stupid and ignorant. How will we ever have a day when the lovers of the breed can freely enjoy their dogs (although there are those who are blessed enough to have this freedom) in peace without the fear of hearing their beloved breed on the headline of yet another attack? Shouldn't we be targeting the people who breed dogs for aggression and ignore socialization and training? Germans Shepherds were once an icon of fear and a mindless taste for blood. It has taken alot of people to try to change this, and in many ways it's worked.. although I can't say it's true for everyone and all areas. The point is that there needs to be a breech of ignorance here.

Yes, Pits are a fighting breed, to deny so is to ignore their heritage. But screaming bloody mary and ostracising will not solve this problem. Many people successuly train and properly socialize their pitbulls to be wonderful family pets and working dogs. This can be done.

You love people more? Yeah, alot of us do. But it's the people to blame here. Not the dogs.

Let's bring on the knowledge and stop the stupidity.

[cdubb68]

GSD Lover, I'm glad you're so fond of your breed. Just FYI, I have nothing but bad experiences with GSDs. I was bitten severely on the hand when I was 6, putting my hand through the neighboring fence that surrounded a hydraulic equipment boneyard. Later in my teens when I moved, another neighborhood GSD was eventually destroyed from absolutely TORMENTING residents as it was never leashed or fenced in. I am very involved in politics and have seen MANY-a-police dog brutality video clips and find them mortifying. However, I am confident that I could raise a GSD to be a perfectly sedate, loving pet. I would never alienate your beloved breed like you have to mine just because the dog falls into irresponsible hands more often than not. Have you ever seen ATTS temperament test results? I hate to tell you that GSDs are of much greater risk to people. Grow up.

P.S. do you believe everything you see on the news to be unbiased and factual? I would bet my last dollar that if rotts, dobes and pitts no longer existed the GSD would be the new violent dog fad.

[German Shepherd Lover]

I too am not in this for as you say, a pissing contest, but I am not going to in anyway promote a dog that has a history of fighting and consistently makes headline news with unhappy endings.

If one of my neighbors had a PB and it attacked my dog I wouldn't be surprised and would react accordingly. They just have a terrible reputation and if you read all of the posts even the PB owners have admitted that they have to be closely supervised and never left alone with other dogs.

If the same stories were constantly bombarding us about any other breed, including the German Shepherd, I would feel the same way. I certainly monitor everything my GSD's do.

Also I have to blame the dog if he bites someone since it has a brain and it did the biting. You can't always blame everthing except the real culprit.


I have a good friend that has 7 or 8 pit bulls and he rescues them because he loves the breed and I don't have to agree with him but we are still friends. That is what friendship is all about.



I don't understand why you think I can't comprehend the question but I never claimed to be the sharpest tack..

If my posts are not according rules of these forums, I will gladly drop off, These posts seem to be getting stale anyway. Good day!!

[Snowshoe]

I think...that what MT was saying was that

IF a dog is poorly bred

and IF a dog is poorly handled

than those factors take the blame off of the dog.

Do you see how those are factors that the dog can't help?

A dog doesn't choose to be poorly bred- it doesn't choose its parents.

A dog doesn't choose to be poorly handled- that is the fault of the people who are unable to train it.

ANY dog can be vicious. I've known many smaller, vicious dogs who've had the same problems that the pities do now.

[MagicToller]

If the same stories were constantly bombarding us about any other breed, including the German Shepherd, I would feel the same way. I certainly monitor everything my GSD's do.

Also I have to blame the dog if he bites someone since it has a brain and it did the biting. You can't always blame everthing except the real culprit.

Apperantly you've only been reading the pitbull stories, because Rottweilers, Dobermans, GSD's, as well as the Pit all share the heat from the public. Within the latest years, the PB has been placed on the spotlight in aggression. Increase popularity of the dog (Appealing to irresponsible people who engage in fighting, overbreeding, and abuse), increase in the number of bites and attacks.

These breeds have the predisposition to be "aggressive." Perrogative of the human.

These breeds can also be raised correctly, and public education can help rescue groups and public awareness. Again - perrogative of the human.

Yes, dogs have brains. I'm glad you realize this. But dogs, as well as a plethora of other animal classifications, are reactors to the environment. Early stimulation and socialization of the brain can lead to a healthy and stable life of a dog.

Let's say for example, that someone snags a GSD puppy and purposefully reinforces aggressive behavior towards people and other dogs. The dog is also ill-socialized in the crutial developing periods of the brain and becomes extremely fearful and aggressive.

Did the dog for once have a chance to say "Hey Bob. Stop doing this. Please." ..? People need to stop anthropomorphing canine behavior. This is by no means a mode of sugar coating the situation of human attacks, but it just goes to show how nurture can beat our nature.

[Curbside Prophet]

I think what I can conclude from this discussion is that it's better to side with caution, regardless of the breed. So to that point, I think GSL has every right to side with caution in regards to pitties. Personally, I don't trust any dog until I've spent some time with it, and can learn to. However, in my mind it's a sad day when breeds are spotlighted in the news for things that hint they should be banned. If it's the pitts, it will soon be the rotts, then the dobes, then the GSD's, and then whatever breed of the week that's perceived to be overly aggressive. If you think a pitt can be made aggressive, guess what a rott will become if pitts are banned...the next big headline in dog attacks. If you think bad breeders are ruining the pitt, I assure you they can do the same for the rott, or GSD, yada yada yada. But as others have pointed out, these dogs, these breeds, don't have a voice in the matter. Point your finger at the bad breed all you like, I still feel if you follow that finger you'll miss the mark. Because history tells us, that regardless if it's a pitt, a rott, a GSD, or a mini schnauzer, they all have a rich history of service to us humans that can't be denied. Whether it's protecting homesteads like pits once did (and probably still do), or sniffing out car bombs like GSD's do, or protecting businesses like dobes do, we need these dogs more than our preference. Yes, be cautious. Yes, pits do kill...but so can any dog in the wrong hands. Funny that...dogs don't have hands. So lets blame the hands, and promote...no, demand better brains to assist the hands in the proper care of our beloved pets, companions, and voiceless friends. Can we all agree to that?

[iwantmypup]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I think what I can conclude from this discussion is that it's better to side with caution, regardless of the breed. So to that point, I think GSL has every right to side with caution in regards to pitties. Personally, I don't trust any dog until I've spent some time with it, and can learn to. However, in my mind it's a sad day when breeds are spotlighted in the news for things that hint they should be banned. If it's the pitts, it will soon be the rotts, then the dobes, then the GSD's, and then whatever breed of the week that's perceived to be overly aggressive. If you think a pitt can be made aggressive, guess what a rott will become if pitts are banned...the next big headline in dog attacks. If you think bad breeders are ruining the pitt, I assure you they can do the same for the rott, or GSD, yada yada yada. But as others have pointed out, these dogs, these breeds, don't have a voice in the matter. Point your finger at the bad breed all you like, I still feel if you follow that finger you'll miss the mark. Because history tells us, that regardless if it's a pitt, a rott, a GSD, or a mini schnauzer, they all have a rich history of service to us humans that can't be denied. Whether it's protecting homesteads like pits once did (and probably still do), or sniffing out car bombs like GSD's do, or protecting businesses like dobes do, we need these dogs more than our preference. Yes, be cautious. Yes, pits do kill...but so can any dog in the wrong hands. Funny that...dogs don't have hands. So lets blame the hands, and promote...no, demand better brains to assist the hands in the proper care of our beloved pets, companions, and voiceless friends. Can we all agree to that?

Very nicely said! thank you sorry to all!

[German Shepherd Lover]

I guess I was wrong. Actually it seems you can grab a pit bull if it has a collar on it.

Man Wins Fight With Vicious Pit Bull........... Conroe, Texas......

What a wonderful breed...........!!!!!

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...5-9c3bd35cee86