[britishbandit]

Noticed a lot of these "designer dog breeders" lately? I'm sure you have. In the media, pet stores and on the internet and such. To name a few, the Golden Doodle, Labradoodle, Cockerpoo, Yorkipoo, Puggle....etc. People are actually breeding these dogs on purpose, and charging hundreds and even thousands of dollars for them. They are not breeds, they are not hybrids (a hybrid by definition is a cross species, not a cross breed of the same species.....ex...donkey/horse, lion/tiger), and they not new and trendy. They are MUTTS, no matter how many ways you look at it. "Breeders" of these dogs have one thing in mind.....PROFIT.....$$$ signs, adding to the "demand" of the unsuspecting and under educated (in this aspect) public. These mixes and many more have been showing up in our pounds and shelters for YEARS! Think about it, instead of buying one of these dogs from a "designer breeder", give the dogs at your local shelter, or humane society another chance at life. Beware of breeders that allow the puppies to leave the litter at 5 and 6 weeks of age (which is common in the "designer dog/BYB world"). It is unacceptable for any dog to be let go any earlier than 8 weeks. It is key for them to gain necessary socialization and learning skills. Also watch for false health guarentees, these "breeders" are notorious for that. Beware of a "designer breeder" saying you can register the pups. Mixed breeds CANNOT be registered by the American or Canadian Kennel Clubs. Not by that any means registration with these clubs are a guarentee you still won't be purchasing a purebred from a BYB, check that pedigree! What I am saying is that these kennel clubs will not register mutts. Anyone giving a false impression that a pup they sell can be registered with these clubs when they cannot is a federal offense and punishable by law (at least here in Canada, and is stated specifically in the criminal code....*I'll hunt down that link if anyone is interested in viewing it*). Even with purebred dogs, the litter owners themselves HAVE to register the pups. The kennel clubs will not allow you to do it yourself with copies of the parents pedigree's. You should be given a registration form from the breeder sent from the kennel club with the dam and sires registration numbers, litter number and owners signature that the pup is to be transferred directly to the new owner (whether it be limited or full registration).

There are over 150 recognized breeds with the American and Canadian kennel clubs, I am sure you can find one of them to suit, if you cannot find a purebred you like, you can help out the dog overpopulation by bringing a wonderful rescue into your home.

I am by any stretch of the imagination saying mutts cannot be wonderful, loyal, loving companions (I've owned some awesome mutts too, they were rescues). But how many more of these wonderful dogs do you want to hear about and see being euthanized every day? Don't by into it, and know you you are not adding to the problem, you are part of the solution.

[DogAdvocat]

Excellent post !!

It sounds like you have tighter laws in Canada than in the U.S. I don't think there are any laws in the U.S. regarding false claims about being able to register mutts, and it's definitely not illegal here to fail to register purebreds.

I don't think people realize the harm they do when they buy from irresponsible breeders and pet shops - whether it be a pure or mixed breed dog - they are supporting and encouraging more irresponsible breeding. When they buy one, they just encourage the breeding of more. That doesn't happen when they adopt from a rescue or shelter.

[Wimble Woof]

British Bandit... have you seen the rottendoodles yet? Sheesh! I mean seriously there is nothing that BYB's wont do for a buck!
Although canadian laws seem tougher regarding falsely advertising and not registering pups, they are rarely enforced, sadly.
As BB stated earlier, it is all a hype, a fad, an excuse to charge rediculous prices for pups in hopes of "cashing in" by fooling unknowing people into believeing they are purchasing the "hottest new thing"
I can tap designer names on my dogs as well...
I have a "purebred" Boxweiler and a "purebred" Rottwheppard!!!! did I pay thousands for them??? NO! Rescues!
When people tell me of their "golden doodles" or "cockapoo's" I am all to quick on whipping those rediculous sounding designer names back at them... you can see the gears grinding in their heads... " Ummm, that doesnt sound right, maybe i was jipped"

[britishbandit]

Thanks DogAdvocate!

No, there are no laws about not registering a dog, but at times (my parents were duped with this one), the breeder claims the pups are AKC or CanadianKC registered. But, are decieving. The parents are registered, but they did/do not register the pups. Still claiming that they are indeed registered, or that the new owners can register them with copies of the parents pedigrees . This is where they can be prosecuted.....false advertising. Unfortunately, not many people know about this, and feel cheated when they find out they cannot register their pup. Even more unfortunate, most believe there is nothing they can do about it, and not even phoning the police or city council will get them anywhere. Even they seem to know nothing about it. I was pointed out to this while asking on another forum last year from someone who had gone through it. They had to search the criminal code to find where it was stated. But once taken before the court, the police/judges had to "read up" on it and follow what was clearly written before them.

This is taken directly from the Canadian Animal Pedigree Act:

"g) knowingly offer to sell, contract to sell or sell any animal in a manner that is likely to create an erroneous impression that the animal is registered or eligible to be registered;

(h) offer to sell, contract to sell or sell, as a purebred of a breed, any animal that is not registered or eligible to be registered as a purebred by the association authorized to register animals of that breed or by the Corporation;"

And can be punishible by:

66. (1) Any person who contravenes any provision of this Act or the regulations

(a) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars; or

(b) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a fine not exceeding fifty thousand dollars.

Value to be considered
(2) In determining the fine in relation to an offence under any of sections 63 to 65, the judge making the determination shall take into account the value, or purported value, of the animal, semen or embryo to which the offence relates.

This was the previous link to the site: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/A-11.2/index.html but it seems to have been changed. Could be my computer though, it gets desicive on where it wants to go sometimes. I'll try and hunt down the new address if it's just the link no longer works.

[Wimble Woof]

link doesnt work for me either.

[DogAdvocat]

Does Canada have "puppy lemon laws"?

[Lorina]

Unfortunately, at work, I can't say what I'm really thinking when someone brings in their cute little overpriced bundle of marketing hype. But the one thing I can do, and always do, is list the breed on their medical chart for what it really is. "Cocker Spaniel - Poodle Mix" not "Cockapoo."

I seriously wanted to smack the person who brought in a Jack Russell - Pug mix and called it a "Jug." I think a vein bulged in my forehead and my eye developed a twitched when I heard that. "Jack-a-pug" is bad enough, but "Jug?!" That's what a gallon of milk comes in.

[Snowshoe]

My boyfriend and I argue this all the time. He says "well, all breeds had to start somewhere."

At which point I usually say that mixed breeds with a purpose who are being deliberately bred are fine with me, such as the Alaskan Husky (fastest sled dog), the Australian Labradoodle (originally intended as a seeing eye dog) or those silken wind hounds (long haired, grey hound like speed).

However, dogs bred randomly with out a standard in mind: The America Labradoodle, cockapoos, goldendoodles, and all of the rest of those strange sounding mixes- is just what you said that it was: hype that bybs use to prey on an uninformed public.

Then, he usually comes back with: "What's wrong with breeding the perfect pet?"

And I say, there are plenty of dogs that make perfect pets. There is a pure bred for everyone. For example, Portuguese Water dogs sure look alot like labradoodles to me. I think they are gorgeous! And, they have a breed club, and an official AKC ranking...

I usually end my argument with sumerizing what the OP stated in the original post: That is is far easier to find a good breeder of a pure bred dog then it is to find a half decent breeder of a poo/ whatever mix.

Once again, this argument isn't whether mutts don't make great pets. They do. Both mutts and purebreds make great best friends to the people that love them.

This argument isn't about that.

This argument is about which dogs should be allowed to contribute their genetics to the world.

[Leila12345666]

I agree thats what i been seeing lately in the newspapers. Ive seen a Goldendoodle for $1000 in the newspaper yesterday. And i been seen more of these dogs around than ever. People pay a lot because this such thing called "Breeders" tell you they are good for people with allergies. And guess what NOT all of them will. The allergies come from pet dander no matter what. I would never buy a dog for that much money. I saw a Puggle the other day at a Petstore along with a Cocker Spaniel Maltese mix. And she was selling for $500 and then next to her window said "comes with AKC papers" ARE YOU KIDING ME? I cant believe people will fall for such a low trick.

I know im NOT the right one to talk here but because im thinking about breeding Nena does NOT mean i cant have my opinions. Im NOT going to breed her to make $1000 a pup, im NOT going to breed her to dump the puppies. Im going to breed her so that each one of the puppies go to my family. Yeah each of them will have their shots and yeah they will ALL be fixed before leaving to our family farm.

But others like the ones you see on the internet and newspapers DONT do it for that. They do it for the $1000 that can get out of each pup. And i dont agree with small dogs being a "trend" thats crazy dogs are dogs NOT accesories please, people DONT know what i come up with anymore.

[Keno's Mom]

What some do is "advertise" that the parents are AKC registered.......leading you to think the designer dogs can be registered.

Also, why do you think there are so many other "associations" that will register your mutts? Just so they can have "papers". They are fake registries that the backyard breeders and puppymills use.

What makes me sad is the fact that people will spend that $300, $400 + on a mutt when they could go get 2-3 shelter dogs and rescue them!

[Leila12345666]

Originally Posted by Keno's Mom

What some do is "advertise" that the parents are AKC registered.......leading you to think the designer dogs can be registered.

Also, why do you think there are so many other "associations" that will register your mutts? Just so they can have "papers". They are fake registries that the backyard breeders and puppymills use.

What makes me sad is the fact that people will spend that $300, $400 + on a mutt when they could go get 2-3 shelter dogs and rescue them!

I DONT think it will be a problem if they sold for $300 or $400. But people are asking $1000 for a MUTT these days! Are you kidding me thats crazy. Ive seen one reach $1500, i dont know how there face dont fall off with such lies.

[Curbside Prophet]

Here's a "ya but" I'd like to see contested:

"A limited and closed gene pool. Most breeds were built on relatively few founding dogs, so the same sets of genes have been reproduced over and over since the breed began. Registries such as the AKC require that all future offspring come from the mating of dogs registered with their club. This restriction eliminates the vast majority of other dogs that would otherwise be available for breeding.

Without the introduction of new and unrelated genes, in the long term all living creatures suffer "loss of genetic diversity," which inevitably leads to weaker animals with health problems. This is happening right now with purebred dogs."

[britishbandit]

Yes, all breeds started somewhere.

But I don't think it was from a bunch of people starting out thinking "ohh, let's mix "this" with "this", that'd look pretty cool or oh so cute". From what I've heard, years and years of research go into this, and the end result, is a standard. When two dogs of the same "breed" are bred, you get a certain look (not a bunch of pups that are all completely different builds and looks), you can pre-determine genetic disorders.

How often does the AKC or CanadianKC add a "new breed" to their list? Not very often. I cannot even recall the last time I saw one added. Some dogs that do have a standard are not yet recognized. I'm still waiting for the Canadian Kennel Club to recognize the Neapolitan Mastiff, which has been around for a LONG time.


I have to be honest, I've seen mixes that I've actually felt sorry for, and have had such serious health problems, simply from thier builds. My ex boyfriends aunt had a Lab/Dachsund. It's head was Lab (size too), the rest of the dog took on the Dachsund. It had serious back and neck problems, and only lived to be 6 years old. And that was after the dog going through years and years of pain and medication trying to make life bearable for him. Turned out the only humane thing to do was have the dog put down.

I also saw a Chihuahua/Pug mix on petfinder a few months back. I had to click on the thumbnail, I honestly thought it was some kind of monkey, or a bush baby or something and it got added by accident. YIKES. Cute as all hell, but really looked like an Ewok. I've never before seen anything quite like it. It actually listed on the page that the owner had surrendered the dog because it didn't turn out how the people wanted it to, didn't look like a "pure" Chi/Pug. *sigh*

[mistyinca]

Originally Posted by Wimble Woof

British Bandit... have you seen the rottendoodles yet? Sheesh! I mean seriously there is nothing that BYB's wont do for a buck!

Whoa! Is that by chance a Rottie and a poodle???!! Why on earth would anyone want to breed together those two?! Not that any designer dogs should be bred, but I'm wondering what they were trying to produce with that mixture.

[Snowshoe]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Here's a "ya but" I'd like to see contested:

"A limited and closed gene pool. Most breeds were built on relatively few founding dogs, so the same sets of genes have been reproduced over and over since the breed began. Registries such as the AKC require that all future offspring come from the mating of dogs registered with their club. This restriction eliminates the vast majority of other dogs that would otherwise be available for breeding.

Without the introduction of new and unrelated genes, in the long term all living creatures suffer "loss of genetic diversity," which inevitably leads to weaker animals with health problems. This is happening right now with purebred dogs."

This is especially true with my breed.

Most of the breed was killed during the civil wars in Holland during the 1700s. They were a mascott of Cornelius "Kees" de Gyselaar, whose party sided with William of Orange.
When his party lost, De Gyselarr was killed, and with him nearly the entire breed of keeshonden. Then Mrs Wingfield-Digby rescued the breed. (The English love to breed dogs ).

So, the existing stock of keeshonden come from just a few foundation dogs. Although for the most part, they are extremely healthy dogs with few problems, occasionally diseases such as epilepsie will crop up in a line. Once there, it is impossible to breed out.

[Leila12345666]

Ive seen a website where you can see pictures of any of these such called "Designer Dogs" which still a Mutt no matter how you put it. Its just a fancier names for people that are dumb enough to believe it. But anyways if you want to see pics just let me know.

[Lorina]

a Cocker Spaniel Maltese mix

Oooh.. The "designer" name that first comes to mind would not be repeatable in polite company.

[britishbandit]

Originally Posted by Wimble Woof

British Bandit... have you seen the rottendoodles yet? Sheesh! I mean seriously there is nothing that BYB's wont do for a buck!

Yes, I have seen "Roodles", and quite frankly it makes me sick. Two absolutely gorgous purebreds (of any kind, not just in the Rottweiler/Poodle case) mixed to create these hideous looking dogs. I'm sure they're great dogs like any other, but come on......WHY???

I am in NO WAY promoting this "breeder", this is just to show you what "Roodles" look like for those who've never seen one.

http://www.valleyviewdogs.com/roodle-pictures.htm

[Snowshoe]

Originally Posted by Lorina

Oooh.. The "designer" name that first comes to mind would not be repeatable in polite company.

*hahahahahahhaahahhahahahahaha*

I about died when I figured out what you were thinking. I was sitting down putting together the words, and I finally blurted it outloud. My boyfriend was like, "WHAT?"

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by Lorina

Oooh.. The "designer" name that first comes to mind would not be repeatable in polite company.

Great, now I'm gunna have to fight off laughter to respond seriously to this post. Thanks Lorina!