"Pedigree Dogs Exposed" full documentary now available

Quincy · 08-21-2008, 12:31 AM

The full documentary of "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" has now been uploaded on Utube, as it's about an hour long that maybe why it was done in 6 parts, and here are the link addresses for each part

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1LyjlX4Mp8

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUbC...watch_response

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpR5s...watch_response

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKwb...watch_response

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szl30...watch_response

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJff...watch_response
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Criosphynx · 08-21-2008, 12:41 AM

I watched the whole thing an hour ago... just wow... The reactions of some of the breeders is bizzare.

lovemygreys · 08-21-2008, 06:31 AM

They certainly made most of the dog show people look like buffoons and some seemed downright mean and uncaring. I really hope this opens up some people's eyes to the state of pure bred dogs in the world and how we've deformed the basic dog form to fit our fancy - not just in creating new breeds, but drastically changing the existing one. I don't have a problem with it, as long as the dog does not suffer because of how we've changed it. Dogs should have snouts! They need them to do things like breathe and have all their teeth fit in their head. Dogs should also have skulls that fit their brains! They should be able to walk without wobbling and looking crippled. There's no reason a companion breed should have a physical shape that prevents it from normal activity - those are the breed clubs that disgust me the most because the ONLY reason those poor dogs suffer with breathing, spinal, eye and other issues is SOLELY for the vanity and whim of humans.

Curbside Prophet · 08-21-2008, 08:36 AM

Forget about the ability to breath.

How about the ability to mate in the first place? There are some bull dogs now that are so stout they can't even get in position to mate. If a dog needs assistance from a breeder to mate, I think that breeder should realize they've met a genetic dead end. Traits have a function and if a breeder can't explain what that function is, I'm thinking that breeder should be kicked in their own reproductive parts.

ELmostl · 08-21-2008, 10:02 AM

just finished watching it. and the german shepherds look terrible. i cant believe they were even being shown.

Noel Redwood · 08-21-2008, 11:22 AM

Almost all breeds recognized by the major Kennel Clubs suffer greatly from inbreeding depression and would thus benefit from outcrossing with other distinct populations, aka breeds (this is commonly known as "hybrid vigor", and it does work). Insisting on perpetual inbreeding (as some KCs do) is profoundly ignorant, egotistical, selfish and cruel. This documentary clearly shows the results of their clinging onto a superficial understanding of outdated 19th Century genetics.

KaseyT · 08-21-2008, 12:08 PM

So is this the doing of "reputable" breeders?

UrbanBeagles · 08-21-2008, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaseyT

So is this the doing of "reputable" breeders?

No, this isn't. This is the doing of the most extreme breeders - I call them ribbon chasers. They do not breed to improve, they breed to win. They are a small percentage of purebred breeders but of course, are being lumped together with everyone else. Just because someone is a show breeder, does not make them reputable, while OTOH, someone who does not show is not automatically disreputable. Of course, they wouldn't interview the breeders who truly represented the majority of show breeders, as then the program wouldn't have that dramatic effect. They took the worst of the worst and are peddling this as the norm, which it's not. There is always that one dog in the ring that is severely overdone, and most sane breeders stay away from those representations of the breed. But for every overdone dog, there are a dozen others who are outstanding in every way - health, temperament, and moderation of structure. But of course, the one bad egg gets all teh attention ...

ELmostl · 08-21-2008, 12:35 PM

even though these are the "ribbon chasers" isnt it saying something that they are actually winning ribbons with their exageratted dogs?

KaseyT · 08-21-2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanBeagles

No, this isn't. This is the doing of the most extreme breeders - I call them ribbon chasers. They do not breed to improve, they breed to win. They are a small percentage of purebred breeders but of course, are being lumped together with everyone else. Just because someone is a show breeder, does not make them reputable, while OTOH, someone who does not show is not automatically disreputable. Of course, they wouldn't interview the breeders who truly represented the majority of show breeders, as then the program wouldn't have that dramatic effect. They took the worst of the worst and are peddling this as the norm, which it's not. There is always that one dog in the ring that is severely overdone, and most sane breeders stay away from those representations of the breed. But for every overdone dog, there are a dozen others who are outstanding in every way - health, temperament, and moderation of structure. But of course, the one bad egg gets all teh attention ...

If I were shopping for a "reputable breeder", how would I know the difference?

Dogstar · 08-21-2008, 01:23 PM

Kasey - health testing results. Ask about those problems. Most of the ribbon chasers will say "Well, we have a bit of X, but it's really not a problem, it doesn't effect their quality of life" and usually they'll deny that it's totally heritable. (Usually "We don't KNOW it's genetic.")

now, there's some cases that all that is TRUE. In collies, CEA is horribly prevelent. A lot of folks will breed carriers (and even affecteds) with a goal slowly phasing out the CEA affecteds and then the carriers without losing the other good traits behind those lines. CEA does relatively little to affect quality of life compared to bloat and epilepsy and thyroid and allergies - so it's always a balancing act.

The best bet? Get to know the breeders. Don't be in a hurry to buy a dog. Spend some time going to dog shows, go to obedience and field trials. Go to the breed club meetings. Get to know people. Don't meet the breeder who happens to have cute puppies RIGHT NOW.

If you are on boards like this and osmeone owns the breed you are interested in and is, from what you know of them, responsible and a good owner (or better yet, exhibits and potentially breeds too), ask their opinion on people locally. (especially since ribbon chasers will frequently have big wins.) Just take your time and get a feel for them. I honeslty think most people rush into puppy purchases.

Pai · 08-21-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanBeagles

No, this isn't. This is the doing of the most extreme breeders - I call them ribbon chasers. They do not breed to improve, they breed to win. They are a small percentage of purebred breeders but of course, are being lumped together with everyone else. Just because someone is a show breeder, does not make them reputable, while OTOH, someone who does not show is not automatically disreputable. Of course, they wouldn't interview the breeders who truly represented the majority of show breeders, as then the program wouldn't have that dramatic effect. They took the worst of the worst and are peddling this as the norm, which it's not. There is always that one dog in the ring that is severely overdone, and most sane breeders stay away from those representations of the breed. But for every overdone dog, there are a dozen others who are outstanding in every way - health, temperament, and moderation of structure. But of course, the one bad egg gets all teh attention ...

The fact that the Kennel Clubs don't seriously go out and censure these people, or even require clean genetic health bill before allowing a dog to be shown, shows that priorities now are not right. The 'good people' not doing anything is allowing this to happen. Fashion is more important than health to many breeders. And they are allowed into rings, breed clubs, and communities and people just turn a blind eye or else shrug and say 'it's not our responsibility'.

IT IS. They are ruining it for EVERYONE. They get held up as everything that's wrong with purebred dog fancy. Instead of making excuses we should be toughening up standards for registration of dogs and for showing of dogs, so that people who don't give two shits about their dog other than as a ribbon-winning doll are drummed out of the entire hobby. We've been tolerating them for too long, and they're killing the breeds. If they lost their ability to win ribbons by their actions, you bet they'd clean up their act.

It's the fact that they're given legitimacy in the show world that's the real scandal here. We can't keep ignoring them and expecting their actions to it not reflect horribly on the rest of us. Keeping silent about it and complaining when called to make any changes in how the dog fancy operates is like tacit acceptance of those people in the eyes of the world. They keep winning ribbons. They keep being held up as 'ideal examples' of the breed (like the German Shepherds). Majority of dog fanciers act like it's all normal, and that's what damns us in the eyes of the people outside. We have nobody to blame but ourselves and our dragging feet when it comes to even considering changing the ways things are. And if WE won't clean house, you bet the AR and outsiders will decide we can't be expected to, and you BET they will try to legislate purebred dogs out of existence. That's why it's our responsibility to the breeds themselves to do something about this first.

Dogstar · 08-21-2008, 03:47 PM

One of the people on one of my lists said that they were approached at shows (althought heir clip isn't in there) and asked questions like "How do you put down puppies that don't meet the standard? Drown them or at the vet?" And they proceeded to completely ignore the film crew after that- they had obviously come in with an agenda and weren't interested in actual answers to the questions.

Pai · 08-21-2008, 04:00 PM

Doesn't change the facts that was shown in the show. There's no disputing those, so people just bash the motives of the interviewers. Nobody whose done any research into the issue can deny the facts they've shown, however.

Whether the people who made the show are 'anti-kennel club' or not, they have plenty of reasons to be, from what we've all seen. The dog fancy has created this problem itself, it can't complain when people become hostile or start seeing them as 'bad guys'. Because this situation is terrible.

The fancy feels threatened, and their 'way of life' threatened, so they get all defensive rather than step back and realize that these people have a point, and instead of making excuses we should be doing something. Or else others will make changes for us, in ways we won't like and can't control.

Dogstar · 08-21-2008, 04:05 PM

Pai - how would YOU react to that sort of thing though?

And I don't know about YOU, but *I* certainly think this is a tragedy. But, I also don't think it's particularly news. Maybe it's just that I've never really thought show was the be-all and end all of proving one's reputation. It certainly HELPS, and doing SOMETHING with your dogs is (IMO) a necessity, but why is this any more surprising than the hunting folks who dump the dogs that don't wokr out in the country to starve, or the BYBs who turn the unsalable 12 week old puppies over to the shelter or rescue?

Pai · 08-21-2008, 04:07 PM

We aren't talking about this being 'surprising'. We're talking about how it's patheric that the dog fancy just accepts it as normal, athough unfortunate, and continues on giving these people ribbons and stud fees and legitimacy within the show world.

Then the kennel clubs cry that people will leave! (Oh no!) If we force them to adhere to basic standards of health and physical soundness in their breeds before being allowed to be shown/registered. And then they get all outraged when people start vilifying them. Come on, it's obvious that the priorities here are seriously screwed up, especially with people who claim to 'love the breeds'. if they loved the breed they wouldn't be breeding them into diseased oblivion or excusing people who do by letting them into respectable dog shows and giving them awards.

Quincy · 08-21-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogstar

In collies, CEA is horribly prevelent. A lot of folks will breed carriers (and even affecteds) with a goal slowly phasing out the CEA affecteds and then the carriers without losing the other good traits behind those lines. CEA does relatively little to affect quality of life compared to bloat and epilepsy and thyroid and allergies - so it's always a balancing act.

Yes, and in severely affected dogs, approximately 25% of dogs with CEA/CH, there are related problems with the health of the eye that can result in serious vision loss in some cases. Colobomas are seen at and near the optic nerve head as outpouchings or “pits” in the eye tissue layers. Colobomas can lead to secondary complications such as partial or complete retinal detachments and/or growth of new but abnormal blood vessels with hemorrhage – bleeding inside the eye. This happens in 5-10% of dogs with CEA/CH, generally by 2 years of age, and can affect either one or both eyes.

I've noticed that DNA CEA/CH testing has been available now for some time.

Here is something interesting involving CEA which is on a list via this link:-
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/v...6360/sch1.html
and that list applies to this see via this link:-
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/v...6360/s15c.html
It's a State Law where a court judge could apply a criminal conviction, plus a fine of $6,840 for an individual, $34,200 for a body corporate. As it's a State Law it can apply to ANYONE in the State who breeds and sells dogs, including Backyard Breeders, Puppy Mills and Pet Shops.
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chul3l3ies1126 · 08-21-2008, 04:37 PM

I'm watching right now, I just got through part 2 and was shocked when they had someone say that they would put perfectly healthy Ridgeback pups to sleep. That is just really weird. I'm going to go on to part 3, but as of right now, that was one of the biggest shockers so far.

Okay, edit because I started watching part 3... obviously they cull merle dane pups and mis marked pups of other breeds as well. To freaky...
Nessa

Laurelin · 08-21-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chul3l3ies1126

I'm watching right now, I just got through part 2 and was shocked when they had someone say that they would put perfectly healthy Ridgeback pups to sleep. That is just really weird. I'm going to go on to part 3, but as of right now, that was one of the biggest shockers so far.

Okay, edit because I started watching part 3... obviously they cull merle dane pups and mis marked pups of other breeds as well. To freaky...
Nessa

There is a big bone of contention with me. They seem to assume that mismarks are culled and make it sound like it is the 'norm'. With truly reputable breeders this is NOT the norm. Plenty of show breeders simply pet out the mismarks, but on here it seems everything out of standard no matter how sound is put down.

chul3l3ies1126 · 08-21-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurelin

There is a big bone of contention with me. They seem to assume that mismarks are culled and make it sound like it is the 'norm'. With truly reputable breeders this is NOT the norm. Plenty of show breeders simply pet out the mismarks, but on here it seems everything out of standard no matter how sound is put down.

Yea that is what shocked me. They really make it out to be the norm, and it's crazy. I've read into breeders and talked to some reputable breeders, most are Dane breeders and the way I have seen it taken care of is they are sold is as Pets. All on a spay and neuter contract.

Is this a UK thing? Like un heard of here in the states? I'm wondering if that is what it is... This is just so weird and un-nerving.
Nessa