[Keeper]

so we have this dog now that we have desided that we cant keep because he is way to mean...he will draw blood to anyone that comes through the door..(he allready has)..we did research to see if we could change that in him but came to the conclusion that we cant because he was a domanant dog in the pack...(hes a blue heeler i belive)...and so know we have to put him down.....now to the actuall question.....we dont want to go through that again so i need to know how to find the perfect dog breed for the family?

[RBark]

Originally Posted by Keeper

so we have this dog now that we have desided that we cant keep because he is way to mean...he will draw blood to anyone that comes through the door..(he allready has)..we did research to see if we could change that in him but came to the conclusion that we cant because he was a domanant dog in the pack...(hes a blue heeler i belive)...and so know we have to put him down.....now to the actuall question.....we dont want to go through that again so i need to know how to find the perfect dog breed for the family?

Any breed you pick is going to be like this because you don't know how to socialize the dog.

[Inga]

Keeper Have you tried taking your current dog to any kind of training classes? Any dog you get will need training regardless of the breed you chose. There is a lot of training information on this forum if you do a search.

[MonicaBH]

Have you contacted a professional behaviorist or trainer? Without doing that first, it's my opinion that you're jumping the gun by putting the dog down. It's not fair to the dog if you're not willing to do your part by training and/or socializing him.

It's also my opinion that you shouldn't get another dog. Dogs and their behavior are a direct result of their owners. If you don't take the time or have the patience to train and socialize your dog, you don't need one.

[Keeper]

i have gotten profesional help weve talked to this guy that told us that he was the domant dog in the pack and he thinks that he is controlling over the family and its very hard to change a domant dog back into a loving dog...and we could get this guy to come in for like $100 per visit but its just not worth it because were moving and we talked to him over the phone and he said that the chances are small for him to be able to change

Originally Posted by Keeper

i have gotten profesional help weve talked to this guy that told us that he was the domant dog in the pack and he thinks that he is controlling over the family and its very hard to change a domant dog back into a loving dog...and we could get this guy to come in for like $100 per visit but its just not worth it because were moving and we talked to him over the phone and he said that the chances are small for him to be able to change

and by the way he is very well trained we spend time with him and we continue to teach him things its not that we dont love him its just that we cant get him to change

[RBark]

There are good trainers out there and bad trainers. Since your trainer told you he was the "dominant dog of the pack" he was a horrendous trainer. Please find a new one.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Keeper

i need to know how to find the perfect dog breed for the family?

Not the perfect breed, you mean the perfect dog....

You can take some breeds that you might think are the perfect breed for families, and unless you look at the individual dog, you could end up with another kujo. Also, no matter the breed, proper training is NECESSARY. Yes, Blue Heelers can be a very independent dog, like my Betty, which needs constant training and socializing, but even they can be great FAMILY DOGS. A neighbor has a male blue heeler, and his dog is so layed back, and they have 3 kids. My manager at work also has 3 kids and a red heeler. So, as you can see, it's not in the BREED, but in the INDIVIDUAL DOG.

What you need to do is don't pick out a dog at the spur of the moment because you really like the dog. If you are looking into Rescues, ask lots of questions, take the dog out on walks at the Rescue, spend time with them. Don't do as I did with Betty and make a decision after a couple of meets and ignoring signals that she was giving that would have cautioned someone more knowlegable. Also, look up a trainer that would be able to help in dog selection as well. If you find a dog you are interested in, see if that trainer would come with and give you their honest opinion. And ask them if they see any signals that would mean caution.

There are many good dogs out there, and there are also ones that I would be cautious on, and some that require a lot more training. I could give some breeds that may do well, like a Chiwawa, which a friend has that's great, or a Border Collie like my Nell and my trainers Angie, as well as the BC's I've been around when at herding classes that are just absolutely affectionate like my Nell and my trainers Angie, they do need lots of exercise to really be happy. But by giving a particular breed as a perfect breed, there is no such thing. Yes, Border Collies are generally very affectionate and one of the more people oriented herding breeds, but some have said that there's also ones that wouldn't be good around any kids at all. I have yet to see this though. Oh, and I forgot about Ruger, my next door neighbors Border Collie. He's high-strung, but very affectionate and loves kids as well. Just needs a lot of space to exercise and run to keep him happy.

Lastly, what are you wanting? Just a family dog that's great around the home? Or are you wanting a dog that you can do other activities with, such as long walks, jogging, competitions like Obedience, Rally, and Agility? Interested in things that are different like herding, tracking, scent descrimination? All these are things that can narrow down the breed, then you have to look for the individual dog that suits your lifestyle.

So there you have it. Hope it helps.

Originally Posted by Keeper

...and we could get this guy to come in for like $100 per visit but its just not worth it because were moving and we talked to him over the phone and he said that the chances are small for him to be able to change

Over the phone? What can a person really do over the phone? Not a whole lot. I think the guy is just giving you the brush off because you aren't willing to put up the $$$, and he knew it. If you were really interested, and was willing to put up the $$$ for a behaviorist, you could change the dog. Look at what I'm doing with Betty, who was so loving at first because she wasn't attached to me in the beginning, and then her protective nature and more aggressive issues started coming out after she started becoming more and more attached to me. We still have a ways to do, and I've been doing it with no help from a behaviorist and some help from various trainers, and she's really come a long ways. There were times I just wanted to give up and get rid of her, but I couldn't let her go. In the home she was just the perfect angel, and it made the string that attaches you unbreakable. I mean, just look at my avatar, lol. How could you give something like that up? lol. To do a dog justice, with issues, you have to be willing to put up the $$$ for a good trainer/behaviorist, be willing to work through all issues, and continue the training after all is done. Having a dog isn't something where you only train so far and then you don't have to do it anymore. Training is constant. It's every day. And Socialize, socialize, socialize, exercise, exercise, exercise. If you aren't willing to take the first step, then you aren't ready for any dog.

[RonE]

The perfect dog is not born, and it's not a particular breed.

It is a subject of its environment.

If you must kill your dog, then that's what you're going to do. But to be wondering already about your next one seems callous and premature.

Sorry, we don't know you or all the circumstances, but that's the way it sounds.

[Inga]

Keeper, that seems like very strange advice for a "trainer" to give a dog owner. I do believe that in some cases a person can get "too much dog for them". In these cases the question is "Does the person love their dog"? You have stated you do. That said, I believe that you can then do what needs to be done to help this dog make the changes that you find desirable. Have you taken the dog to the vet to make sure it is healthy? Sometimes, things like hormone levels can be off, or thyroid changes can make a dogs personality/temperament change for the worse. Sometimes it is as simple as a daily pill to correct this. I guess the fact that One person told you a dog is dominant and cannot be changed makes me think there is still hope for this dog. I hope you will try a better trainer. This dogs life depends on that.

[Erick Aguilar]

Yeah i agree with everyone else..
Bad trainers,and owners often think dogs with bad behaviour are responsible for their own acts, but it's the owners fault.

Was this dog rescued?

Now... there is no such thing as a perfect breed for the family.
Two Shepperds will never be the same.
Two Bulldogs will never be the same.
Two Huskies will never be the same.

Get my point?
Natural behaviour; well that might be similar because it's the insignia of that breed, doesn't mean it can't be changed though.

My advice.. get more information on dog training,obedience,behaviour before you attempt to get another dog. Putting one down is enough.

[Lorina]

This is the only kind of dog that's "perfect."

All the rest need training, socialization and discipline. And even a poorly socialized dog can be managed. It sounds like from your description he's bad with people who come into the house? That's different from an aggressive dog who will and does bite just anybody, even his owners.

My Beavis doesn't like strangers on his territory. If someone he didn't know came into the house, he would probably bite them. But I take precautions. He's crated, babygated or leashed whenever someone new comes over. If that person is going to be there a while, I take the time to introduce them to Beav and when he's calm, they offer him treats in exchange for sitting or paws. If they're not going to be around (like the Directv repairman), I just keep him contained. I adopted him as an adult and while I do work with his issues, I've accepted that his being territorial is just one of his quirks we'll have to live with. And it's very common with his breed to be that way.

(On the other hand, he's perfectly behaved at places like Petsmart or at his recent rescue group reunion. If it's not his turf, he's a gentleman. If it's his turf, he's a nutjob.)

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Erick Aguilar

Was this dog rescued?

There are many great rescues out there, but there are also dogs that need more work due to issues created by previous owners. Don't know your situation if the issues were created in your home, or a previous home, this is a good question. How long have you had the dog and did it come from a rescue?

Originally Posted by Erick Aguilar

Now... there is no such thing as a perfect breed for the family.
Two Shepperds will never be the same.
Two Bulldogs will never be the same.
Two Huskies will never be the same.

Get my point?

Exactly......

Originally Posted by Erick Aguilar

Natural behaviour; well that might be similar because it's the insignia of that breed, doesn't mean it can't be changed though.

My advice.. get more information on dog training,obedience,behaviour before you attempt to get another dog. Putting one down is enough.

There are lots of good trainers out there. There are also lots of good books, training DVD's, etc, etc. We can name a few if you like that might help start the process, but you must be able to start the process yourself by taking the first step.

Originally Posted by Lorina

And even a poorly socialized dog can be managed.

Management, as well as Responsibility, very, very important.

[MonicaBH]

Originally Posted by Keeper

i have gotten profesional help weve talked to this guy that told us that he was the domant dog in the pack and he thinks that he is controlling over the family and its very hard to change a domant dog back into a loving dog...and we could get this guy to come in for like $100 per visit but its just not worth it because were moving and we talked to him over the phone and he said that the chances are small for him to be able to change


and by the way he is very well trained we spend time with him and we continue to teach him things its not that we dont love him its just that we cant get him to change

So you took the advice of someone that has never laid eyes on your dog? IMO, anyone who tells me sight unseen that my dog's behavior is too far gone shouldn't be called a trainer... much less, charge $100/hour for their services.

A trainer would need to visualize the dog in its own elements to accurately assess the problem. I'm sure there are more trainers in your area than this schmuck... and probably for less money. (My trainer charges me $60/hr and he is wonderful and amazing and perfect and nice and and and. But I guess I'm lucky.) Since you're moving, start looking now for trainers in the new area.

If your dog was very well trained, he wouldn't be biting people. Knowing the basics (i.e., sit, down, come, etc) isn't all there is to training. There are times when regular Joe Blows (such as me & you) can only go so far in training, in which case the advice of a professional dog trainer is required.

[Black&Rust Dobermann]

WTF... Dominance is not an excuse to put a dog down. This is just an asinine post. Instead of finding a good trainer to help you gain control over you're dog, you are asking for advice on finding the "perfect breed." How about asking for advice on how to correct your dogs behaviour problems? With dominant dogs, you MUST be very firm and consistent, cannot let them get away with anything, practice NILIF religiously and most importantly, give your dog a JOB. I am sorry but if this thread is for real (I pray you are a TROLL) than you do not deserve another dog.

Maybe you should look into goldfish.

[Keeper]

actually we rescued him.....he was abandoned in a woods and we drove by and saw him lying by the road we got out to see if he was ok and he was but....he looked starved and dehidrated...we took him home and got him treated with a vet and he grew up to be very protective and we were trying to the best of our ability to train him not to bite but....weve had some bad things happen and we dont want to get sued....for example he drew blood to one of my friends and he took down a bike rider and started to bite him....all im trying to say is that we dont want to put him down its just theres nothing left to do and were tired of taking him to trainer after trainer just to get a "it looks like the chances of changin your dog is small" and besides that we are moving to colorado.....theres nothing we can do and if you would just see how he is you would know....we dont want to put him down

[Lorina]

A dog should never have the opportunity to "take down" someone riding a bike. They should be confined, on leash or behind a secure fence.

My dog will bite under the right (or rather wrong) circumstances. He bit me a week ago and I'm on antibiotics for it. It was my fault. I was grooming him and I should have used a muzzle. But I wouldn't consider euthing him and starting over because I failed him.

I do agree that there are some dogs who are mentally imbalanced and should be euthanized. It's just unclear from your posts what has been done to help this dog and prevent him from hurting people.

Are you a minor? Are your parents the ones making the decision?

[Black&Rust Dobermann]

Originally Posted by Keeper

actually we rescued him.....he was abandoned in a woods and we drove by and saw him lying by the road we got out to see if he was ok and he was but....he looked starved and dehidrated...we took him home and got him treated with a vet and he grew up to be very protective and we were trying to the best of our ability to train him not to bite but....weve had some bad things happen and we dont want to get sued....for example he drew blood to one of my friends and he took down a bike rider and started to bite him....all im trying to say is that we dont want to put him down its just theres nothing left to do and were tired of taking him to trainer after trainer just to get a "it looks like the chances of changin your dog is small" and besides that we are moving to colorado.....theres nothing we can do and if you would just see how he is you would know....we dont want to put him down

The problem is none of us can see your dog, so we do not know the extent of his behaviour problem, couple that with your lack of details, makes it very difficult to play arm chair quarterback. The only people that can make the decision to put your dog down is you and a behaviourist/trainer.

I just have a feeling that this is one of those situations, where the dog has some fixable behavioral problems, but its owners are convinced the dog is too much trouble, and would rather PTS than figure out a solution to the problem. What training methods have you undertook to eliminate your dogs "problem behaviours?"

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by Black&Rust Dobermann

WTF... Dominance is not an excuse to put a dog down. This is just an asinine post.

Let's try to to be a little more professional here, this is a family oriented forum. Sometimes comments like this scare off newcomers who are really in need of good help, and when they don't come back, some just consider them trolls, which I don't think this person is. Just would like to see more Positive comments rather than things that are negative. But you do have some other good advice there as well. And if Keeper doesn't know what NILIF means, it means Nothing In Life Is Free. Basically, he must work for things like food, water, play, etc. It can be as simple as having the dog sit before setting his food down. This puts you in the position as the Top Dog. And being your dog is a Heeler, you MUST give your dog a JOB. This can be as simple as Obedience classes, Agility, Rally, Herding, Long walks and Jogs at your side, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Keeper

actually we rescued him.....he was abandoned in a woods and we drove by and saw him lying by the road we got out to see if he was ok and he was but....he looked starved and dehidrated...we took him home and got him treated with a vet and he grew up to be very protective and we were trying to the best of our ability to train him not to bite but....weve had some bad things happen and we dont want to get sued....for example he drew blood to one of my friends and he took down a bike rider and started to bite him....all im trying to say is that we dont want to put him down its just theres nothing left to do and were tired of taking him to trainer after trainer just to get a "it looks like the chances of changin your dog is small" and besides that we are moving to colorado.....theres nothing we can do and if you would just see how he is you would know....we dont want to put him down

But there is something you can do. You just have to be the TOP DOG. Also, the dog should be leashed as well when on walks or out and about. Herding breeds do love to go after things that move fast, including cars, bikes, etc. You just need to find someone that knows the breed, and knows how to work with them. Since you are moving to Colorado, you should be able to find a good trainer that's on a ranch and trains in herding. Heelers are a Very Strong breed, and are not a beginners dog. So, that said, if you are wanting to keep the dog, you need to work at it. It's not going to come easy, and you will have ups and downs. Take it from another experienced heeler owner. Betty has definitely been a challenge from me, and still can be. I've had her about 11 months now, and we are just now starting to make real progress. The first 6 months was really challenging, as I was not only trying to work on her issues, but she was becoming more and more bonded to me through the process, which seemed to pull the issues the other direction. Believe me, when you start seeing progress, it's going to be very Rewarding. You just need to find a qualified trainer, and not just any trainer, and stick to it. Find out if they have had any experience with Heelers, that would be a plus, but isn't always required.

[sheltiemom]

I think you should contact an Australian Cattle Dog rescue and see if they are willing to take your dog (be honest about his issues) or if they can recommend a trainer/behaviorist in the area you're moving to, particularly one that is familiar with herders. You did a good thing by rescuing him, but I'll be honest, it really bothers me that you keep using the fact that you're moving as an excuse as to why you can't work on the problem. What you need to be doing, right now, is managing the situation. There is no reason for him to have access to strangers in your house and bikers...I know more than one herding breed dog that would try to take down a biker...not saying it's acceptable, but it isn't unheard of and I'm surprised to hear people telling you they can't fix it. The next thing you need to do is get a full vet check to be sure there isn't a medical reason for the problem. After that, find a behaviorist in your new area and at least have them come look at the dog in person. The one you talked to on the phone sounds like an idiot.

All that said, I do believe that not all dogs can be rehabilitated, and that it's ok to put down a human aggressive dog or a dog with severe issues. It sounds to me like you haven't tried very many things though, or maybe it's alot worse than it sounds from your post...I'd like to know is he aggressive toward you and people he knows well?

[Spicy1_VV]

This is different from what I thought it'd be by the title.

The "perfect dog breed" (Pit Bull in my case) just was. A good fit from the start. I didn't have to go out of my way to find it.

For my other breeds I did a lot of research, meet as many of that breed as I can, talk to owners/breeders, read what is written by breeders, find the breeders who they and their dogs meet up to my criteria and what the breed should be.

Originally Posted by Keeper

so we have this dog now that we have desided that we cant keep because he is way to mean...he will draw blood to anyone that comes through the door..(he allready has)..we did research to see if we could change that in him but came to the conclusion that we cant because he was a domanant dog in the pack...(hes a blue heeler i belive)...and so know we have to put him down.....now to the actuall question.....we dont want to go through that again so i need to know how to find the perfect dog breed for the family?

How much research did you do on this breed before you got one? Heelers can be territorial. How much socialization did you do? It is key to do early socialization so that they learn what is and isn't ok, you need to be the "dominant one in the pack" and give him security and direction so he knows what to do when people over. If you miss out on the socialization stages when he is young then it can cause problems but you can still work with him.
How is he bred? If you started with a poorly bred dog you could be asking for a lot more temperament problems and lots of work to get a good dog. A lot of people think reputable breeders just have the same dogs at higher prices but that is really not true.
Secondly if he has an issue with strangers and you do not feel you can change him or if you don't think you can trust him 100% even with training why can't you confine him when guest come over? There are many people who have potential biters or there are certain breeds which do not welcome strangers, the owners put the dog in a crate, bedroom or outdoor kennel. Whatever the reason for the dogs aggression and biting towards people the dog is removed from the situation.

To find the perfect dog breed you have to put in research and time usually. Then to have the perfect dog for you takes work, the breed and its traits need to fit your lifestyle and then its up to you to make sure that it will be the dog it is supposed to be. If you don't want a dog on your furniture you must train him, ect. The dog might not just know he isn't allowed, he is not born knowing everything you want him to do and what you don't want him to do.

You said this person says he is the dominant dog in the pack, why does he say this. Is the dog dominating you, being aggressive towards you? If he is not but only biting guest who enter the door there could be a number of different reasons why he has this reaction that have nothing to do with being the "alpha dog". So this person is not making very much sense. If he is thinking that he is the boss have you tried NILF with him? Have you tried anything to change him instead of just saying it won't work. Not all dogs can change or ever will be trustworthy. But it seems you've just taken the word of this person who has not observed his behavior.

Individuals within any breed have the potential to become aggressive or have other temperament problems.