[Annamarie]

I love my dog to death. Around the house he's so playful and loving, unfortunately nobody gets to see this part of him because around other people he's fearful, defensive, occasionally aggressive, and a nuisance barker. As I said in another thread we get him exercise and have resorted to an e-collar as a last ditch effort to get him to behave. When he has it on, he behaves. But is he ever going to behave without it? I don't like e-collars, I only use it because that's the only training method he's responded to so far.

I love to cuddle with him, but can I do that when the baby is here? I don't know. Chances are he'll be pushed to the side because I'll be breastfeeding and busy with the baby etc. Do I trust him around the baby? not a chance. this worries me.

I love that he makes me laugh and is playful and gets me off my rear to walk etc, but walks are not enjoyable for me, never have been. There's just so much of his misbehavior in one way or another to put up. And now we can't even do off leash walks anymore because he's just a pain in the rear to deal with. He's scared of big dogs so I have to pick him up or they go after him as prey, there was that incident with the jogger, and now he's doing stuff like running off towards the road that he hasn't done for at least a year. I can't trust him in any situation. And now that he's not getting off leash exersize, he's going to be an absolute pain in the house, destroying things and annoying me to play with him every second of the day, and barking.... lots of barking.

at what point do you say this dog is not right for me...

[French Ring]

Originally Posted by Annamarie

I love my dog to death. Around the house he's so playful and loving, unfortunately nobody gets to see this part of him because around other people he's fearful, defensive, occasionally aggressive, and a nuisance barker.

I want you to understand that no one thinks that your dog is a horrible dog who is aggressive 100%. I hope my posts haven't implied anything like that. I haven't seen your dog; however, it sounds like he is a very insecure dog who isn't sure of himself. I believe what he is lacking of is a pack leader. He has learned a coping mechanism when he is fearful, he responds with aggression which gives him what he wants a space. When an insecure dog is afraid, they do anything to AVOID it. When you see him getting afraid, you mother instinct is to pick up or do something to make it goes away.

When you are on the walk with him, try not to pick him up if he get scared. I know you are trying to protect him from large dogs, but it doesn't help with his insecure issues. Only pick him up when you actually know that large dogs are posing some threats.

Look for a person with well behave large dog that doesn't prey on small dogs, ask them to do a favor, walk beside them with your dog or practice walk past them without you picking him up. Repeat it.

As I said in another thread we get him exercise and have resorted to an e-collar as a last ditch effort to get him to behave. When he has it on, he behaves. But is he ever going to behave without it? I don't like e-collars, I only use it because that's the only training method he's responded to so far.

There are way where you can avoid using e collar such as doing marker training and other motionval training. It is not hopeless. E collar is just a easy fix and takes away the problem. It doesn't teach dogs what things they have done wrong without any verbal corrections.

I love to cuddle with him, but can I do that when the baby is here? I don't know. Chances are he'll be pushed to the side because I'll be breastfeeding and busy with the baby etc.

That's fine, I hope you aren't feeling guility because you are not giving him enough attention when the baby comes.

Do I trust him around the baby? not a chance. this worries me.

No one should trust their dogs around their babies. It doesn't mean they have to get rid or rehome their dogs. When you bring your baby home, don't let your dog have an access to your baby's toys or even play with it for first 2 weeks. Keep him out of the baby room. You want to teach him you demand a space. (No, he wouldn't be upset or his feelings would be hurt either )

After 2 weeks, you start to lay around baby's clothes with her/his scent and have your dog smell them. If your dog is playing, with baby's dog, that is NOT a good sign. You want your dog to respect your baby's clothes, toys, and anything that belongs to the baby is OFF the boundary. He is not allowed in the baby room. Eventually your dog will learn to respect the baby and give him a lot of space.

And now we can't even do off leash walks anymore because he's just a pain in the rear to deal with. And now that he's not getting off leash exersize, he's going to be an absolute pain in the house, destroying things and annoying me to play with him every second of the day, and barking.... lots of barking.

Don't be hopeless

Your dog is barking because for many different reasons, to seek attention? bored? excited? etc.

at what point do you say this dog is not right for me...

I'm not saying that this dog isn't right for your lifestyle; however, remember you chose miniature pinscher. I do have one too. If you are reading their breed description, they are aloof in nature, very curious, escape artist, a high energy breed, etc.

[naoki]

I’m sorry to hear that. You sound very stressed out…
Have you tried to take him to any training classes? Or any doggie daycare? (especially those “small dogs only” places)
I never owned a mini-pin before so I’m not familiar with this breed but all mini-pins I have ever met seemed to behave the way you described. Very hyper, constant barker, etc. (I don’t mean to say anything negative about this breed so don’t get me wrong)
Anyway, I hope you'll come up some good solution...

-naoki

[Canadian Dog]

Very good information.

There are 3 of us who meet each day at noon with our dogs so they can play together. The 3 of them are very well socialized and it's a pleasure to watch them play. Sometimes there are as many as 8 dogs as others know we meet and show up. About a week and a half ago, a guy showed up with 2 Jack Russel Terrier mixes who barked constantly and one fear aggressive, neither dog was socialized. The first day he had to keep them leashed and only stopped for a few minutes, so we invited him back to see if our dogs could have a positive influence on them. The difference has been amazing. His 2 dogs still have small bursts of barking, but are far more relaxed and able to play fetch with the owner. The owner said he's noticed a difference at home as the dogs would go crazy for half an hour when they had company, and now it lasts for a few minutes.

[kelliope]

Little dogs can be tough. Many have traits and/or holes in training and socializing that can lead them to become fearful which in turn leads to fear based aggression and other behavior problems. In addition, it can be VERY difficult to socialize a very small and/or fine boned little dog because they can be easily hurt or seen as prey by bigger dogs.

Add to that the small-dog breedism that is so prevelant and other dog owners smirking or being downright rude because you "have a little yapper" or think you "coddle" your dog when you try to protect him from getting injured or possibly killed and, well, it just becomes overwhelming and so frustrating.

I definately feel your pain!

But your little man needs you. If you really think you'll be overwhelmed when the baby arrives then please start looking for a very good, small dog rescue now. I might be able to help - we have an excellent one in our area and small dogs are at a premium (pm me if you want more info).

Otherwise, I think the e-collar and off-leash thing around other dogs is a mistake. Too many chances for something real bad happening or at the very least a good chance of him experiencing something that causes a major setback.

Doggie classes, playdates with other small dogs, walks on leash - those are his best bets. Also, for extra exercise - what about swimming him in a kiddie pool? It's excellent exercise and should tire him out quite quickly.

I'll try to post again later, after I've given this more thought. I just can't get over his little face in your avatar. He just has that needy, lost little look that just breaks my heart for him. So sad to be a fearful little man in a land of giants. Don't you just wish there was a magic wand you could wave to take all his fears away!

[Annamarie]

no no, it's not only that thread, it just opened up my eyes a little that's all. some things people said made sense, like if this was a bigger dog it wouldn't be a question that the dog was at fault. and then the way he behaved today. looking at my dog from an outsider's view that never gets to see him at home, my dog is a total jerk. the reasons behind why he's acting that way are really irrelevant. that's why i feel like such a failure.

he does have one large doggy friend that he plays with. they chase each other in circles and go nuts, it's the only time I've ever seen him play with a dog. we unfortunately only get them together once a month. i'd be happy to take that dog with us on walks, I've offered, but apparently she has issues on walks where she lunges and snaps at other dogs.

there are no doggy daycares around here (unless we drive about 45 minutes to the city) and none that I know of that specialize in small dogs. I wish

i joined a facebook dog group to try and get some local people with small dogs together but the only one i've found is a lady with an old grouchy pug and another rambunctious puppy pug, and a whole lot of large breed owners, none of which would be a good mix. i've taken him to the dog park a few times but he spends the whole time hiding under the bench from the big dogs.

the problem with the big dogs is that he's been attacked once or twice, or hurt when they get rough trying to play, so he immediately goes fearful which they of course see as a target and go after. if I leave him on the ground, he runs and they chase him and he gets totally freaked out. that said i do leave him down if there is a large dog that doesn't seem interested in him, and he's pretty ok with that.

i knew what we were in for when we got the breed, that's one of the things that attracted them to us. the hyperness and all that I can deal with. it's the misbehaviors that we've been trying to fix for 2 years now that are frustrating me. and those aren't just min pin specific, because his sister was a total sweetheart with strangers and very brave.

[InverseLogic]

I can't give you much advice, but I really don't like Min Pins that much. My grandma's neighbor had one.

All he did was bark, all day. High pitched noise.
He bit your ankles occasionally.
If you left him alone, he would yelp and make noise.
Taking him for a walk was impossible in high distraction areas.
He was afraid of everything that was near him, and not on the other side of the fence.
ETC...

I realize this comes from horrible training thanks to a bad owner, but that's just my experience. I have hated Min Pins since then

[wvasko]

I'm not saying that this dog isn't right for your lifestyle; however, remember you chose miniature pinscher. I do have one too. If you are reading their breed description, they are aloof in nature, very curious, escape artist, a high energy breed, etc.[/quote]

Ring
Yes, I wanted to get a Mini-Pin and all the Mini-Pin breed people said I could not have one, I was way too old.

[naoki]

there are no doggy daycares around here (unless we drive about 45 minutes to the city) and none that I know of that specialize in small dogs. I wish

sorry...

the problem with the big dogs is that he's been attacked once or twice, or hurt when they get rough trying to play, so he immediately goes fearful which they of course see as a target and go after. if I leave him on the ground, he runs and they chase him and he gets totally freaked out. that said i do leave him down if there is a large dog that doesn't seem interested in him, and he's pretty ok with that.

I wish you and your dog lived in this area so that I can take Lennox to meet your dog! He's a big boy but never see little dogs as prey. He plays very well with small dogs as small as chihuahua. He just let them do wahtever they wanna do to him and never get mad or frustrated. He sometimes gets even scared of little dogs...

-n

[kelliope]

Originally Posted by InverseLogic

I can't give you much advice, but I really don't like Min Pins that much. My grandma's neighbor had one.

All he did was bark, all day. High pitched noise.
He bit your ankles occasionally.
If you left him alone, he would yelp and make noise.
Taking him for a walk was impossible in high distraction areas.
He was afraid of everything that was near him, and not on the other side of the fence.
ETC...

I realize this comes from horrible training thanks to a bad owner, but that's just my experience. I have hated Min Pins since then

Some things to keep in mind - most toy breeds were bred to be companion animals - pocket dogs as it were. They need to be with their people. Often they were bred to be alarm barkers. Since they can't really "protect" they bark an alarm when they feel an intruder is present or they hear danger, etc.. They don't like to be alone as they were bred to be the constant lap dog/companion animal - usually of the very wealthy (who didn't have to go off to work). They weren't really bred to socialize with big dogs or go treking through the woods, etc.

So, in reality, the dog is doing what it was bred to do. Not to say they can't be more socialized and trained, but certain things just come with toy breeds.

It would be like saying - geez, I really hated my neighbor's Labrador - he was always wet from jumping in their pool - or I really hate my neighbors St. Bernard because he always drools, etc. LOL! I guess you can hate the breed, but it's hard to hate an individual dog for being the way he was bred to be.

My point being - it's not always horrible training. Often there are just certain breed traits that are hard to do away with. And in addition to that most toy breeds weren't bred for their high trainability. And, as I said in my previous post, it can be very hard to socialize a dog that can so easily be hurt or killed by other dogs. And for an owner trying to work with a toy breed, the looks and comments layed upon us by other dog owners is pretty tough to deal with sometimes.

I just wish more people would take these toy breed traits into consideration when judging them or before getting them.

[French Ring]

Originally Posted by Annamarie

he does have one large doggy friend that he plays with. they chase each other in circles and go nuts, it's the only time I've ever seen him play with a dog. we unfortunately only get them together once a month. i'd be happy to take that dog with us on walks, I've offered, but apparently she has issues on walks where she lunges and snaps at other dogs.

Have you asked the owner to walk together with your dog? Maybe you can use her dog to begin with? Try to keep your leash loose and relax while you are on walk. If she pulls, correct her and then let the leash loose again. Also, when she snaps and lunges at other dogs, do fast 180 degree turn and walk fast in the opposite direction until she stops trying to look behind then turn around. Repeat it and be consistent about it. If she is walking on the right side, turn on the right turn. It will caught her off guard because she was not expecting you to turn on her side. When she starts to look up at you, reward her with a high value steak, hotdog, or chicken. ( Not when she's lunging or barking at other dogs, but soon as you do the turn and have her look at you, reward her right there)

a whole lot of large breed owners, none of which would be a good mix. i've taken him to the dog park a few times but he spends the whole time hiding under the bench from the big dogs.

I wouldn't take your dog to dog parks for many good reason. Many large dogs don't know how to play nice with small dogs and I never let my dog play with large dogs. I only teach him that he has to walk nice with me if he sees big to small dogs. I try to keep the interaction between big dogs and my dog very positive.

the problem with the big dogs is that he's been attacked once or twice, or hurt when they get rough trying to play, so he immediately goes fearful which they of course see as a target and go after.

Let's say you make up a rule. From now and on, he is no longer playing and interacting with large dogs anywhere. You start to work on his "leash" reactive with large dogs. Only allow him to interact with large dogs who are very polite with their greeting.

When you and he are walking, no interaction and maybe the only little interaction you let is sniff and that's it. Any large dogs with intense prey drive, try to avoid and walk past them like you hurried on your way out.

[Annamarie]

i've offered to walk their dog that he likes for them but they aren't comfortable with it because of her issues, and i'm not comfortable trying to "train" someone else's dog. i think it oversteps the boundaries.

i agree though, no more interactions with dogs....

[InverseLogic]

Originally Posted by kelliope

Some things to keep in mind...

Oh, well, I guess Min Pins just aren't for me. I hate barky dogs, that's all. You probably would to if you had to sleep next door to one who was on a 4 foot chain day in and day out, barking like crazy. It gets very, very annoying after a while.

[kelliope]

No - I totally understand. And I have to add it makes me really sad to hear the dog was on a chain his whole life.

I just feel that sometimes these forums are geared more toward bigger dogs (and I can understand - most people here have bigger dogs). I just want to bring some awareness that toy dogs are often quite different than large dogs and some things that would be considered huge training problems for a large dog are often BREED TRAITS for some toy breeds.

Then what happens is that a toy breed owner comes here for training ideas and goes for things that apply to big dogs but not necessarily fearful toy dogs and then more damage is done.

It can be very difficult to be a toy breed owner and feel you are fighting a losing battle with a fearful dog. I sense a lot of frustration in Annamarie and I hate to see that. She has a loveable little guy that needs some extra care and I hate to see her so frustrated.

Annamarie - you have a PM.

[Annamarie]

thanks kelliope, i appreciate it *hugs*

I agree that a lot of training and advice is geared towards large dogs. even the trainers we've been to, the techniques seem more for large dogs, like the "choke chain" trainer. I've had so much bad advice given to me by trainers too, like the lady who basically said if he was acting out to "get in his face and kick his ass". well sure, if I want a dog with bigger issues that cowers in fear... she has rotties and she's great with them, but when she offered to take him for a week and put him with her pack of rotties I politely declined.

[Sunshyne]

This may be a longshot, but have you checked meetup.com? I found a pug playgroup that meets once a month in my area and I had never heard of it before. We have only gone once, but Chloe behaved and it was so much fun! It was actually closer to us than the Petco puppy playdates, and it is FREE! It's always in a "host" family's fenced in yard.

I understand the big dog / small dog thing too. That's why it was nice to find this meetup group - everyone is pretty much equal and they "get" the pug behavior traits / issues / etc.

Good luck

[Annamarie]

No, I never knew about meetup.com. I'll have to look into it!!

[Sunshyne]

It's a great site. I don't know where you are, but in my state they have tons of dog meetups - pug ones, small breeds, lab groups, you name it.

[Dog5]

I understand where you're coming from...I have four Chihuahuas and none of them like anyone else other than our family, so when people are over they just stay upstairs, problem solved. I don't take them out because they don't like it, but they get plenty of attention and play at the house.

A dog that small can get enough exercise just running around his own house...maybe that would work better for you...just play fetch or get down on the floor with him and play.

Best of luck...don't give up on him!

[melgrj7]

Once you get closer to your due date, start ignoring the dog. You may even want to get a doll and carry it around, hold it. Walk the dog with a stroller. You don't want to suddenly be doing this when the baby arrives or he will associate with the baby. Start doing it before the baby arrives and its business as usual, there is just a real baby around now. If he isn't going to be allowed in certain rooms or on the furniture after the baby is here, start with that now.