[K8IE]

Originally Posted by Max'sHuman

It sounds like you are a compassionate person and want to do right by dogs but the logic of letting a dog "choose" is not good logic. You know what I think of to prove it? Antifreeze. Lots of dogs choose to drink anti-freeze because it tastes good. But it kills them. Thing is dogs don't really have the same ability to reason out choices that we as humans do so sometimes we have to choose what is best for them. It's kind of like with human children. If left to their own devices they would make all kinds of bad choices, so sometimes as the responsible adult we have to make choices for them. They aren't the "fun" options, but they are the smart, responsible ones.

Very good points. Dogs don't have the ability to make rational choices of what may be best for them, that is why it is up to the responsible owner instead. My son would surely "choose" to eat junk food for breakfast and try to play in the street if I allowed him his own free will all day long, but that would be abuse and neglect on my part. Instead I choose for him, and he eats healthy foods and is fully supervised when playing for his own safety. That is what responsible parents do.



I would also suggest that the OP actually do some research into the health benefits of spaying or neutering a dog, (other than the obvious ones) before just deciding that it is cruel rather than responsible.

[vieya]

First off thanks for all that replied. I understand and have actually read through the advantages of neutering and spaying and microchip, just because I don't agree with it to the fullest extent does not mean I don't know anything about it. Another thing is I thought everyone has their own opinion, I don't see why I can't think that it's not right. I'm not telling everyone that they should agree.

I don't see why people are giving me a hard time and saying that I'm raising flags, because I asked for a "free" puppy. I was asking for where to find it.
If I was some sick freak I wouldn't even bother to respond or waste my time reading through comments and would have started breeding dogs to make more puppies already. It's nothing wrong with asking for help. Besides you could possibly help a dog or puppy since their owner can no longer take care of it instead of letting it out on the streets or in some box. And like most people say the free puppy is most likely more expensive anyway.

Bottom line I'm not trying to become some sick breeder in anyway or am I even thinking about owning a puppy mill. But I just wanted some help. I just don't see why everyone has to want an altered puppy or a non-free non-cheap puppy to be "sane". I mean I get it I'll probably end up getting a altered puppy from a shelter or whatever since of the overpopulation but I'm still not sure about that microchip.

[JenTN]

Originally Posted by JeanninePC99

Free or not, the expense of having a puppy is huge! Vet appointmenmts every three weeks, vaccinations, start-up purchases like the crate, sleeping surface (mat, bed, etc.), toys, treats, collars, leashes...

I'd actually argue that a free puppy is probably MORE expensive than one adopted at the shelter that has a fee because the free puppy probably hasn't had any deworming medicine or vaccinations, so your vet has to start from square one. The shelter dog has to be up to date on shots to be adopted out.

My kittens were "free" and by the time I had them vetted (vaccinations and wormed) they ended up costing more then if I had gotten them at the shelter- then when it was time to have them spayed and neutered that tacked even more on the bill.

[ACampbell]

Like I mentioned, since it is NY state law you won't find a shelter that will release an animal without written legal documentation that you will spay or neuter your pet.
I don't understand your concept of the microchip. It isn't inserted into their head, just in the loose skin on the back between the shoulders...it's not a GPS tracking device, but it holds information so that in the event your pet is lost or stolen and turns up at a vet/shelter etc they can scan the chip and positively identify the dog - hence doggy comes home instead of being euthanized...

I'd rather have my dog chipped and come home than never find them and have them dead because I didn't want to spend the $25 to do it.

[RRM_Mom08]

Originally Posted by lovemygreys

Sorry...but wanting a FREE dog, wanting it unaltered b/c of some weirdo "it's a dogs choice" crap is just way too many HUGE red flags for me to actually help this person get a dog. I can't believe there are actually people giving them suggestions on how to find a cheap/free, unaltered dog.

My thoughts exactly!!

Also any shelter that includes micro chipping (and most all do) has this as part of there contract policy if you don't agree with it they will simply to allow the adoption to go through.

[ChrissyBz]

There is no such thing as a "FREE" animal.

Usually, the "free" ones are much more expensive than one that has had some care. Care costs money. Money means NOT FREE!

I agree with everyone elses posts here.

My "free" horse has cost me sevral hundred dollars. My two "free" dogs have cost several thousand over the past two years.

[Lorina]

Originally Posted by JenTN

My kittens were "free" and by the time I had them vetted (vaccinations and wormed) they ended up costing more then if I had gotten them at the shelter- then when it was time to have them spayed and neutered that tacked even more on the bill.

I'm going through that myself right now. I have two "free" kittens I found stray, and just getting them vaccinated, dewormed, tested for infectious diseases, will cost about $150 each. Add another approximately $150 each for neuter and microchips, which I strongly believe in. So, that's $300 a kitten. Providing they stay healthy and don't wind up with a $300 overnight stay at an emergency clinic like my last "free" cat.

I could have adopted one vaccinated, altered, tested, chipped and dewormed for $50 from the SPCA.

[Twinney]

The free/cheap comes out of the puppy right away after you have everything done to be sure it's healthy. .
DHLP/PARVO Vaccine: $23.50
Rabies Vaccine: $15.00
Heartworm Test: $23.00
Heartguard: $25.50= $87
If its a female and you spay it:
Spay: $105.75
Anesthesia: $32.75
Pre-Surgical Blood Screening: $29.25= $254.75
Direct from Shunka's papers. Give or take a few dollars because of the states, regardless, your paying an extra $100 if you spay it (if you get a female) than if you adopted.
If you got this puppy from somebody who didn't have time, or no longer wanted it, who knows what might of gone wrong. Yeah, they might of needed to move, had a family addition, or needed the room, but what if the puppy was a biter, about to go into her 1st heat cycle, a chance of heartworm or rabies.

I mean it's the dogs choice not ours if they want it why should we make that decision for them.

Some mother's reject and kill their puppies after birth. If you knew she was going to do that, wouldn't of you watched her more closely?
And I completely AGREE!! Just the other day Kola walked up to me and said, "I don't want to be spayed. I don't need it. I'll say so if I want to have puppies or not." A dog can't tell you if they wanted to be spayed/ neutered or not.

[Willowy]

I actually think most female animals would choose to be spayed, if they could make a rational choice and communicate it to their owners. I KNOW female cats would.....no part of reproduction is pleasant for them. Heat is painful, sex is painful, giving birth is painful....and kittens are annoying . I don't think heat and sex are as painful for dogs, but I still think most dogs would choose not to go through that if they could. Most women choose to seek some form of birth control, not just to prevent pregnancy, but also to prevent issues with their cycles. And some women who have a family history of reproductive problems will choose to have a full hysterectomy once they're done having kids, or have determined never to have kids. So I'm all for spaying.

I understand and have actually read through the advantages of neutering and spaying and microchip, just because I don't agree with it to the fullest extent does not mean I don't know anything about it

Well, I guess when you said something about the microchip being inserted into the dog's head, I kind of assumed you hadn't read up on it......that's a weird assertion to make if you knew that the microchip goes under the skin between the shoulder blades.

[French Ring]

Originally Posted by vieya

I mean I understand the reason behind why people want to spay and neuter their dogs and possibly microchip them but it just seems unnecessary if you can take good care of a dog. I don't want to do all that to the dog since it's technically not necessary unless I purposely look to breed them or lose them.

I am a big advocate for spaying and neutering animals; however, leaving unspayed/uneutered animals to breeders who are doing it to improve the breed.

I have a few questions... What if somebody broke into your house or yard, and stole your dog. A good civilian found/rescued your dog off the street or from someone who wanted to use your dog as a bait dog for fighting. Your dog didn't have a microchip and ended up in humane society. Don't you want your dog to be returned to you if she or he has been found?

If you chose not to spay/neuter your dog, which is fine with me. Unless you are a responsible dog owner and manage to keep all intact dogs away from your dog. If you can't, then get it fixed. How will you like to see your dog's puppies going to bad home where you couldn't do anything to help them or don't know where they might end up? Maybe a nice couple came in and took one of your puppies. Later on, you found out that they used it for dog meat. How will you like that?

Right now, we have a dog meat company that is operating to kill/buy our dogs and cats for meat here in the United States. I don't know where they are, but there are three locations. Western, eastern, and central. Wouldn't you be happy to see one of your puppies going there?

http://www.puppybeef.com/

[ACampbell]

Originally Posted by Willowy

Most women choose to seek some form of birth control, not just to prevent pregnancy, but also to prevent issues with their cycles. And some women who have a family history of reproductive problems will choose to have a full hysterectomy once they're done having kids, or have determined never to have kids. So I'm all for spaying.

Exactly! I'm getting "fixed" after this pregnancy (#3) because I don't want to get pregnant again...3 is enough! I see nothing wrong with it either, it's a permanent solution to a simple problem

Originally Posted by French Ring

Right now, we have a dog meat company that is operating to kill/buy our dogs and cats for meat here in the United States. I don't know where they are, but there are three locations. Western, eastern, and central. Wouldn't you be happy to see one of your puppies going there?

http://www.puppybeef.com/

Is that for real? If it is it's pretty sick (I'm leaning toward it being real considering their "butcheries" being located in Korea etc...)

That's just repulsive.

[French Ring]

Originally Posted by ACampbell

Is that for real? If it is it's pretty sick (I'm leaning toward it being real considering their "butcheries" being located in Korea etc...)

That's just repulsive.

Yes it is for real, you can try and order the meat, if you like. Yuck!

[ACampbell]

Yeah I read their FAQ sections...all I can say is...how disgusting!

Now cats on the other hand...J/K

[rosemaryninja]

NILIF.

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

[JeanninePC99]

Puppybeef.com is NOT REAL. The group behind it:

Registrant:
Vexes Media, LLC
2519 McMullen Booth
Suite 510-323
Clearwater, FL 33761
US

Has many fake sites. Most are detailed on their site, insulting<dot>com.


All are fake.

[Criosphynx]

my pom was bred and bred and bred untill her owner lost or dumped her.

I had to endure spaying a very old dog that could have died in surgery.

I kept saying why? why didn't they fix you?

Im sorry but the thought of som'one who is not an avid, educated, and active "dog person" owning an unaltered animal makes my skin crawl.

5 out of 6 microchips and only one yelp. lol