[j.le]

public transit!
except during rush hour if you have a really big/noisy/unpredictable dog

[Pai]

Originally Posted by j.le

public transit!
except during rush hour if you have a really big/noisy/unpredictable dog

Yep yep... if the dog is small enough to ride on your lap, they're free! If they take up a seat, though, they have to pay regular fare... we used to take our Rottie on the bus sometimes, I'm sure that made some people do a doubletake when they got on, lol!

[poodleholic]

public transit!
except during rush hour if you have a really big/noisy/unpredictable dog

Yep yep... if the dog is small enough to ride on your lap, they're free! If they take up a seat, though, they have to pay regular fare... we used to take our Rottie on the bus sometimes, I'm sure that made some people do a doubletake when they got on, lol!

I'm surprised, because so often people who are disabled with service dogs often have access issues on public transportation, such as buses and trains.

[JenTN]

Originally Posted by kelliope

That's what I mean when I said "uptight". People here are so worried about germs, etc.

And as far as having well behaved dogs - I agree. No ill behaved dog should be brought INTO stores to be socialized. Much of the socializing can be done OUTSIDE. Also, why I stated it's much easier and more stores welcome very small dogs that can be completely contained by their owners vs. big dogs that can knock over displays or shed all over stuff, etc.



Why does it tick you off? A small dog can be completely contained - no drooling on stuff, no hair flying everywhere, etc. How would you like it if people complained about your dog for no reason? What's the big deal?

Many little dogs, being bred as companions, suffer from SA more frequently than larger dogs. Since they can be completely contained and not offend anyone by potentially drooling, pooping, peeing, shedding on stuff, why should you care?

There are lots of places little dogs can't go. Places that big dogs can - like many parks and lakes. It just isn't safe for little dogs. So what's it to you if people - who can completely contain their little dog - take them to places that aren't really appropriate for big dogs?

Our Nordstrom allows little dogs (they may allow big dogs, I don't know), but while I can contain my little dog and it never touches any of the clothing, etc., I don't see how I could do that with a big dog.

BTW, I have had both big and small dogs and they each have their upsides and downsides, but it really bugs ME when I hear dog people complaining that about little dogs being able to go more places.

It ticks me off becasue big or small, it's breaking the law as its a HEALTH CODE VIOLATION. And FYI, my big puppy would never knock over a display or anything of the sort. I don't have to "contain" him because I TRAIN him. The other day in training I droped an entire pouchful of various yummy dog treats right at my big puppies feet. I said "LEAVE IT" and he sat down and looked at me and ignored the treats while I cleaned them up. My grandmother's shit zhu wouldh've taken my arm off over those treats.

And also, I don't like seeing little dogs out because they are always yipping and yapping and that annoys the heck out of me.

As for the hair flying everywhere, um there are plenty of small dogs that can have hair flying even if contained- I've seen it. My Bo hardly sheds at all.

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

I was under the impression that this is what we were discussing: Owners who are admitted to locations where dogs are not allowed because the dogs are small.

If the sign says, "No dogs allowed," then people with dogs should not be admitted. Not because it benefits me, but because it is a posted rule. To allow small dogs in and keep bigs dogs out is arbitrary.

If the rule is, in fact, that dogs are allowed as long as they are fully contained, then there is not a "No dogs allowed" rule in effect. But when I see the "No dogs allowed" sign on the grocery store, the Target, the indoor mall, and the restaurant, I expect that I will not also see someone's Maltese, regardless of how well contained it is. And yet somehow I do! There seem to be a tremendous number of small dog owners who will walk by a "No dogs allowed" sign and there seem to be a tremendous number of store employees who will allow them to do so.

This is what I took issue with, and apparantly it translated into little dog vs. big dog allowed debate. I don't like people breaking the rules, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

I would have to completely agree. It's turning into a big, uptight, sue-happy community out there, IMO.



Or how about this, sit in front of the store, socializing the dog. And when you see that person bringing in the other dog, walk in with yours right behind her, lol. Then if they say anything, she will have to leave as well, especially if it's a place where they don't allow dogs.

LOL, thanks, great suggestion!!

[Roscosmom]

So I think the general consensus of this thread is= small dogs aren't *real* dogs
To quote someone I love dearly "That's not a dog...that's not even a cat!"







*ducks*

[JenTN]

Originally Posted by Roscosmom

So I think the general consensus of this thread is= small dogs aren't *real* dogs
To quote someone I love dearly "That's not a dog...that's not even a cat!"





*ducks*

ROTFLMAO You better hide!!

[JackiesZoo]

Saying that all small dogs are yappy is just like saying all pits are dangerous (mind you, I have a small dog and want a pit) is a blanket statement that just reeks of ignorance. Sad really if you ask me.

Remember, just because "your" Target doesn't allow dogs doesn't mean the next one doesn't. Each store makes it's rules conforming to its area and customers. I would never condone breaking the rules. In fact, I search for signs wherever I go. MY home depot says NO DOGS...so guess what?? My 5lb pooch won't be going in.

So in essence, I agree that rules should not be broken. However, with an increasing number of people owning smaller dogs establishments might start allowing them in to conform to it's neighborhood...though they have not changed their sign. So, if the establishment says it's ok, then it's ok. Regardless of what the sign says. They make the rules and only they can bend them.

[JenTN]

Originally Posted by JackiesZoo

Saying that all small dogs are yappy is just like saying all pits are dangerous (mind you, I have a small dog and want a pit) is a blanket statement that just reeks of ignorance. Sad really if you ask me.

Remember, just because "your" Target doesn't allow dogs doesn't mean the next one doesn't. Each store makes it's rules conforming to its area and customers. I would never condone breaking the rules. In fact, I search for signs wherever I go. MY home depot says NO DOGS...so guess what?? My 5lb pooch won't be going in.

So in essence, I agree that rules should not be broken. However, with an increasing number of people owning smaller dogs establishments might start allowing them in to conform to it's neighborhood...though they have not changed their sign. So, if the establishment says it's ok, then it's ok. Regardless of what the sign says. They make the rules and only they can bend them.

If you had read my original post MY post was a rant about MY Target letting small dogs in while it is illegal for dogs of any size to be there. I wasn't saying anything about anyone else on the board taking their dogs to Target. It is a health code violation, plain and simple.

[JackiesZoo]

I don't quite remember singling you out. In fact, I was referring to my own experiences. MY target, doesn't have such sign. Soooo, if YOUR target, does, as you said, that I am in total agreement that NO dog should be let in...

[Max'sHuman]

All right guys, this has gotten heated! So of course I have to throw my two cents in. To me, what makes me mad about the people with small dogs in places that say "no dogs allowed" is the underlying sense of entitlement they must have. This idea that somehow the rules don't apply to them because they are above them by virtue of something. But more than that, in our country, my understanding is you can exercise your rights and even blur the edges of them AS LONG AS THEY DON'T INFRINGE ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S. People have a right to go into shopping areas and not have dogs of any size in them. Just as we have a right to own dogs, other people have a right to avoid them. And to think that your dog, no matter how wonderfully behaved is an exception to that is rude. Allergies, fear and religious beliefs are just a few reasons people may want to exercise that right. Now if you go into a store and they turn a blind eye to you and your small dog. Fine. You can go back. But be cognizant that there is good reason it may upset some people. It has nothing to do with lawsuits, bla bla bla, it has to do with common courtesy. For me, I think about it like this. I am terrified of snakes. If someone brought a snake into a store, even if it was mostly in a bag of some sort, I would not be happy about it. I have a right to avoid snakes and though it isn't a rule to not allow them into stores, the person would be infringing on my right to be in a snake-free store and would be acting irresponsibly. Along with rights we have responsibilities as citizens. And to break the rules or assume they don't apply to you is to act irresponsibly.

That said, if more stores were upfront about allowing dogs then people who don't like dogs could know to avoid them and those that have dogs and feel the need to take them everywhere could choose those stores. Either way there would be choices for all parties.

[harrise]

Originally Posted by Max'sHuman

... and those that have dogs and feel the need to take them everywhere could choose those stores.

That's the part that loses me. I just don't get taking them everywhere. Well said Max's.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by JackiesZoo

So in essence, I agree that rules should not be broken. However, with an increasing number of people owning smaller dogs establishments might start allowing them in to conform to it's neighborhood...though they have not changed their sign. So, if the establishment says it's ok, then it's ok. Regardless of what the sign says. They make the rules and only they can bend them.

True, and if they do conform to allowing small dogs, then they should remove the No Dogs Allowed sign and put up something more appropriate, to the effect of what they do allow. It would just make it easier for everyone.

[JackiesZoo]

Originally Posted by Max'sHuman

People have a right to go into shopping areas and not have dogs of any size in them. Just as we have a right to own dogs, other people have a right to avoid them. And to think that your dog, no matter how wonderfully behaved is an exception to that is rude. Allergies, fear and religious beliefs are just a few reasons people may want to exercise that right.

Yes, people have a right to go into shopping areas and not have dogs in them...IF the establishment maintains that. It is not rude if the establishment allowed you access. What is rude is to say what a business owner can or cannot do with there own business.

For me, I think about it like this. I am terrified of snakes. If someone brought a snake into a store, even if it was mostly in a bag of some sort, I would not be happy about it. I have a right to avoid snakes and though it isn't a rule to not allow them into stores, the person would be infringing on my right to be in a snake-free store and would be acting irresponsibly. Along with rights we have responsibilities as citizens. And to break the rules or assume they don't apply to you is to act irresponsibly.

If there are no rules stating snakes cannot come in...then what rules would they be breaking? In fact, the same way that one with a snake makes a choice to come into a store where it is allowed...one that doesn't like snakes can make the decision not to enter the store where the snake was allowed. No? Your right to a snake free store lies on the decisions of the store owner/manager. It is not your given right.

That said, if more stores were upfront about allowing dogs then people who don't like dogs could know to avoid them and those that have dogs and feel the need to take them everywhere could choose those stores. Either way there would be choices for all parties.

I totally agree with you. Stores should be more clear with what is and is not acceptable in their store and if a customer doesn't like it, they can choose to go somewhere else.

I don't have a problem if my dog is not allowed...like I said, I won't take him to Home Depot because dogs are not not allowed in my HD unlike many others who have stated that their HD allows dogs, big and little...and that is ok by me, he'll just stay home.

Only thing I wonder is...if a store puts up a sign saying that dogs are permitted, would those big dog owners still be singing the same song and dance of the allergies and religion and peoples right to not be around animals (last I checked that was not a right, merely a decision of the person)...or would they take their pooches with them? Just a thought.

[Max'sHuman]

When did I say what a business owner can or can't do? Jeez. They can do what they want but they should make it clear what people can expect. No means no. Yes means yes. They don't mean "maybe under certain circumstances". But at least make a clear statement so if people want to avoid or bring they can do so with a clear conscience. And just because it doesn't explicitly say no doesn't mean it's not a rule. Then a person is assuming and you know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass of u and me. The point is clarity. People deserve to know what to expect.

And I would still sing a song and dance about it. I have a small dog. One I could probably sneak or get away with if I wanted to. But I wouldn't cause that would be a jerk move. I try to be conscious of the fact that not everybody finds Max as charming as I do. Plus I'd rather not "get away with something". I'd rather take Max to places where he is welcomed with opened arms and I don't feel the glares of other people boring holes into my back.

[loratliff]

Originally Posted by JackiesZoo

Only thing I wonder is...if a store puts up a sign saying that dogs are permitted, would those big dog owners still be singing the same song and dance of the allergies and religion and peoples right to not be around animals (last I checked that was not a right, merely a decision of the person)...or would they take their pooches with them? Just a thought.

...And we have a winner. It's funny how people's tunes change when *they're* the ones being discriminated against.

[harrise]

Blast my basic courtesy. I would not take my dog(s) inside any place not animal related (even if allowed). I stand several feet off the sidewalk when people go by. I don't cross the street if someone is in their yard doing work. Everyone gets right of way over me and my dogs, that's just how I roll.

[Max'sHuman]

Originally Posted by loratliff

...And we have a winner. It's funny how people's tunes change when *they're* the ones being discriminated against.

Ain't it the truth? My aunt, a Kindergarten teacher, does a lesson on this. It relates to her Civil Rights and Holocaust unit. She chooses something arbitrary, say shoes with laces and all the kids with laced shoes get to sit the front for story time. They are allowed to sit on their knees, talk, lay down, whatever they want. The others have to be quiet in the back. The ones in the back immediately start protesting, it's not fair to be discriminated against. The ones in the front are immediately boastful and proud and wave their power around. And then, all the sudden they immediately understand.

So here's a question...why do the people who have the power feel entitled? Why not seek fair treatment for those who are discriminated against? It makes me think of a poem:

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

Don't mean to go kind of off topic. But there ya have it. I try not to tread on other people's rights just because I CAN.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by JackiesZoo

Only thing I wonder is...if a store puts up a sign saying that dogs are permitted, would those big dog owners still be singing the same song and dance of the allergies and religion and peoples right to not be around animals (last I checked that was not a right, merely a decision of the person)...or would they take their pooches with them? Just a thought.

Yeah, I still would be. I'm with harrise on this one. If it is not a specifically dog-related place, like a pet store or the vet or the park, ie places that a cynophobe/dog-allergic person would not visit, my dogs don't go there with me. I don't believe it's fair that those people should deliberately have to pick and choose, and possibly inconvenience themselves, just so my dogs can go pick out clothes with me.

[JackiesZoo]

Originally Posted by Max'sHuman

When did I say what a business owner can or can't do? Jeez. They can do what they want but they should make it clear what people can expect. No means no. Yes means yes. They don't mean "maybe under certain circumstances". But at least make a clear statement so if people want to avoid or bring they can do so with a clear conscience. And just because it doesn't explicitly say no doesn't mean it's not a rule. Then a person is assuming and you know what they say about assuming? It makes an ass of u and me. The point is clarity. People deserve to know what to expect.

You may not have said it outright, but mentioning what they should do is another way of telling them what to do, no? Most establishments don't have signs saying yes or no...sometimes one just has to ask. I am in total agreement that it would benefit customers if their was a clear establishment of the rules, but that is up to them. If I am not clear, I ask.

And I would still sing a song and dance about it. I have a small dog. One I could probably sneak or get away with if I wanted to. But I wouldn't cause that would be a jerk move. I try to be conscious of the fact that not everybody finds Max as charming as I do. Plus I'd rather not "get away with something". I'd rather take Max to places where he is welcomed with opened arms and I don't feel the glares of other people boring holes into my back.

And that is exactly my point. I never said sneak and "get away with" bringing in the dog. If an establishment states that they are changing their rules and all dogs are now allowed, then all the allergy, religion and respect for others argument would go out the window. HD allows big dogs, I don't see anyone saying, NO, I won't go in there, it might be against someone's religion. Instead, it is tauted as a GREAT DOG FRIENDLY establishment by large dog owners, and there is no problem with that because the establishment allowed the dog in there.

Originally Posted by loratliff

...And we have a winner. It's funny how people's tunes change when *they're* the ones being discriminated against.

Ain't that the truth. I am not looking for excuses to take my pooch with me everywhere, I just don't like the negative remarks made against smaller dogs. It is one thing to say, dogs are not allowed and the rules apply to small dogs too...and another to say, little dogs are not dogs...but um, when a dog is not allowed sign is on a store, even if the establishment makes an exception, all you hear is, a small dog IS a dog and shouldn't be in there. Which is it???

[harrise]

Originally Posted by JackiesZoo

Ain't that the truth. I am not looking for excuses to take my pooch with me everywhere, I just don't like the negative remarks made against smaller dogs. It is one thing to say, dogs are not allowed and the rules apply to small dogs too...and another to say, little dogs are not dogs...but um, when a dog is not allowed sign is on a store, even if the establishment makes an exception, all you hear is, a small dog IS a dog and shouldn't be in there. Which is it???

Just get one of each and call it done!