[tirluc]

Originally Posted by kelliope

Me too!!!!! I love visiting Europe where many places you see dogs.* We are just way too uptight here!

Dogstar said:
While it's good to get your pup out and socialize? Be careful. Stuff like accidents, puppies chewing on things, etc, is getting pet-friendly places to STOP being pet friendly.

and Mudra said:
Some people has allergic reaction to doggie fur


these 2 things are the main reasons that we are "so uptight" w/ dogs going places....mostly the first one......if more people were better dog owners and made their dog behave in public it wouldn't be so hard for the rest of us.....the other, i'm not sure what to do about that .....but there was a woman that raised a fuss at a store here about a service dog that was in the store....the owner of the dog didn't seem disabled (the dog was a seizure dog) and she was saying that the dog shouldn't be there cuz there was no "outward" sign of disabilities and "dirty animals" shouldn't be in stores to begin w/......

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by Lonewolfblue

I'm completely the opposite. If I took Betty into a place like Lowe's, how do other people have to deal with Betty? I'm the one dealing with her, and she's always with me. And I'm sure that most people that have said they take their dogs into stores have them on leash. I definitely wouldn't take Betty in off leash, then others would end up having to deal with her, lol. I definitely wouldn't take a dog into a food store, and probably not even a clothing store, but would just about anywhere else as long as they are welcome, and I have full control of the dog.

Originally Posted by chul3l3ies1126

Sorry jesirose, but if you think that it's impolite because people shouldnt have to "deal" with your dog while they are shopping, then you do not have proper control over your dog. No one has to "deal" with Callahan, he completely ignores anybody and everybody and is right at my side while walking and looking straight at me while sitting still... now if thats having to "deal" with my dog... then lol... thats some damn good dealing.

Some people are allergic to dogs. Some people are phobic of dogs. Some people subscribe to religions that prohibit them from touching dogs. Some people just don't like how dirty dogs are. Yeah, 'dirty'. Dogs are dirty - they just don't seem so to people like us because we love them so much that it's not an issue. I have no qualms with sticking my fingers inside Spunky's mouth when brushing teeth, or having to brush fur off my jeans...but some people just don't like buying clothes that have dog fur on them, or walking past a puddle of drool.

There are a lot of ways to dress up the words 'I'm bringing my dog here because I want to and no one says I can't, so suck it up'. I don't bring my dogs to places that aren't specifically dog-related, like the pet store or pet restaurants, and they're still pretty well-socialised. Perfectly socialised? Maybe not, but in ten years I haven't been in a situation where they fell short.

[JenTN]

I take Bo to Lowes and Home Depot. I never would have dreamed he could go there, but our trainer suggested it. I was skeptical at first, when I walked in I asked an employee at Home Depot. She said "of course!". They even keep dog treats at the cash registers for dogs.

One of my biggest gripes, though is people who think dogs that can fit in a purse can go anywhere. People are always bringing small breeds into Target and carrying them or putting them in the buggy. And our Target has foods (for sale and an eatery) so it actually violates health codes. Nobody ever says anything to them. It really ticks me off. I would love to put Bo in the cart and dare anyone to say anything to me, if he would fit, LOL.

My sister used to work at JC Penney and she asked someone with a Yorkie if it was a service dog and the owner said no. She told them no dogs allowed. They found a manager and he said since it was small it was okay. She told her manager it was breed discrimination and she would never ask someone with a large dog to leave- and she is by no stretch of the imagination a dog person.

My cats could fit into a purse, but I don't bring them to places where pets aren't allowed. It's just plain rude.

[Roscosmom]

I agree,Jen. I get a bit spiteful when a different set of rules apply to purse dogs. I was at Garden Ridge a few weeks ago and some lady had a little maltese (an ugly one at that!) in her basket. I was wondering what the heck he was doing there and how she got away with it, but the answer was obvious..
Just imagine if I brought my bulldozer in there..they'd ask me to leave in a heartbeat. Breedist!

With that said- I never knew it was okay at Lowes and Home Depot. I had to run to HD the other day and I took a special trip home beforehand to drop Rosco off.

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by kelliope

Me too!!!!! I love visiting Europe where many places you see dogs. We are just way too uptight here!

I would have to completely agree. It's turning into a big, uptight, sue-happy community out there, IMO.

Originally Posted by JenTN

One of my biggest gripes, though is people who think dogs that can fit in a purse can go anywhere. People are always bringing small breeds into Target and carrying them or putting them in the buggy. And our Target has foods (for sale and an eatery) so it actually violates health codes. Nobody ever says anything to them. It really ticks me off. I would love to put Bo in the cart and dare anyone to say anything to me, if he would fit, LOL.

Or how about this, sit in front of the store, socializing the dog. And when you see that person bringing in the other dog, walk in with yours right behind her, lol. Then if they say anything, she will have to leave as well, especially if it's a place where they don't allow dogs.

[kelliope]

Originally Posted by tirluc

but there was a woman that raised a fuss at a store here about a service dog that was in the store....the owner of the dog didn't seem disabled (the dog was a seizure dog) and she was saying that the dog shouldn't be there cuz there was no "outward" sign of disabilities and "dirty animals" shouldn't be in stores to begin w/......

That's what I mean when I said "uptight". People here are so worried about germs, etc.

And as far as having well behaved dogs - I agree. No ill behaved dog should be brought INTO stores to be socialized. Much of the socializing can be done OUTSIDE. Also, why I stated it's much easier and more stores welcome very small dogs that can be completely contained by their owners vs. big dogs that can knock over displays or shed all over stuff, etc.

Originally Posted by JenTN

One of my biggest gripes, though is people who think dogs that can fit in a purse can go anywhere. People are always bringing small breeds into Target and carrying them or putting them in the buggy. And our Target has foods (for sale and an eatery) so it actually violates health codes. Nobody ever says anything to them. It really ticks me off. I would love to put Bo in the cart and dare anyone to say anything to me, if he would fit, LOL.

Why does it tick you off? A small dog can be completely contained - no drooling on stuff, no hair flying everywhere, etc. How would you like it if people complained about your dog for no reason? What's the big deal?

Many little dogs, being bred as companions, suffer from SA more frequently than larger dogs. Since they can be completely contained and not offend anyone by potentially drooling, pooping, peeing, shedding on stuff, why should you care?

There are lots of places little dogs can't go. Places that big dogs can - like many parks and lakes. It just isn't safe for little dogs. So what's it to you if people - who can completely contain their little dog - take them to places that aren't really appropriate for big dogs?

Our Nordstrom allows little dogs (they may allow big dogs, I don't know), but while I can contain my little dog and it never touches any of the clothing, etc., I don't see how I could do that with a big dog.

BTW, I have had both big and small dogs and they each have their upsides and downsides, but it really bugs ME when I hear dog people complaining that about little dogs being able to go more places.

[FilleBelle]

It's irritating because it's an unnecessary double standard. If dogs aren't allowed, then dogs aren't allowed.

Your example of not taking a little dog to a park or a lake is not an appropriate comparison. If you feel that your dog physically cannot tolerate an activity, then you elect to keep the dog from participating in the activity. No one is preventing you from taking your dog to the park and then turning around and allowing someone else's dog access.

A more appropriate comparison would be you getting turned away from an R rated movie because you don't meet the age requirement, then watching your equally underage best friend go in because, well, she's just so mature!

I generally don't take my dog anywhere that isn't specifically dog friendly. This is mostly for my own protection. In the event that someone is irritated by me having my dog out in public, I can easily site store policy and get an employee on my side.

[reverend_maynard]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

It's irritating because it's an unnecessary double standard. If dogs aren't allowed, then dogs aren't allowed.

Your example of not taking a little dog to a park or a lake is not an appropriate comparison. If you feel that your dog physically cannot tolerate an activity, then you elect to keep the dog from participating in the activity. No one is preventing you from taking your dog to the park and then turning around and allowing someone else's dog access.

One could as easily say that YOU choose not to carry your dog around in a carrier. If you feel that your back cannot handle it, that's your choice. Why get mad at people who CHOOSE to carry their dog, thus eliminating, or at least greatly mitigating, any problems that dogs may cause that result in them being banned? If you carried your dog in a carrier, you could probably get away with it too.

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

A more appropriate comparison would be you getting turned away from an R rated movie because you don't meet the age requirement, then watching your equally underage best friend go in because, well, she's just so mature!

No. If that underage person was admitted because they were with their parent or guardian, and you were refused because you weren't, that would be a much closer parallel.

[FilleBelle]

Nope, sorry. Your example doesn't work either. In your example one person is following the rules and is therefore admitted. The other person is not following the rules and is therefore denied access.

Following your example, when a person with a dog walks up to a store that has a "No dogs allowed" sign, s/he should be admitted. When another person with a dog walks up to the same store, s/he should not be admitted.

Arbitrary enforcing of rules makes having rules pointless.

I have no anger towards people who want to take small dogs into stores where dogs are not allowed. I do, however, have anger towards a store employee who will site a "No dogs allowed" rule to me, while allowing another owner and dog access.

[kelliope]

Well, sorry, but as a store owner, we do allow contained little dogs.

We do NOT allow larger dogs unless, of course, service dogs.

Our rules are: If it doesn't touch the floor and is totally contained, it's allowed. We don't care if it's a bird, dog, cat whatever.

And it's not a double standard - it's common sense.

We sell motorcycles, watercraft, etc. We cannot take the possiblilty of a larger dog knocking down one of our bikes, scratching one with their collar, nails or leash, etc.

That is the reality of the situation. Sorry if larger dog owners find it offensive, but that is just the way it is. The only other option is to allow no dogs at all. An option we don't find necessary.

But as some larger dog owners would have it there will be no dogs allowed at many stores because they complain. And that is just ridiculous.

As a person who is able to use common sense, I would not take my small dog to an area noted for having large, playful dogs off-leash and playing in the water. But I would take my mom's Rottie there. I would not dream of taking my mom's Rottie to Nordstrom, but I wouldn't hesitate to bring my Chi's there (contained, of course).

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

A more appropriate comparison would be you getting turned away from an R rated movie because you don't meet the age requirement, then watching your equally underage best friend go in because, well, she's just so mature!

You are quite right. Except I'd say the comparison should be that you get turned away for being underage, while an appropriately aged person gets allowed in. They are both people - but different ages. They are both dogs, but different sizes.

[reverend_maynard]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

Nope, sorry. Your example doesn't work either. In your example one person is following the rules and is therefore admitted. The other person is not following the rules and is therefore denied access.

Except, little dogs being allowed because they are being carried is the de facto rule. And it's not arbitrary. If the person ahead of you had a large dog and they let them through while they turned you away with the identical dog, that would be arbitrary.

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

Following your example, when a person with a dog walks up to a store that has a "No dogs allowed" sign, s/he should be admitted. When another person with a dog walks up to the same store, s/he should not be admitted.

Would it make you feel better if the written rule (rather than the unwritten, de facto rule) was "No dogs allowed, unless they are carried in a carrier?" Somehow I doubt it.

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

Arbitrary enforcing of rules makes having rules pointless.

Well, there's your problem. You choose to see it as arbitrary because it doesn't benefit you.

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

I have no anger towards people who want to take small dogs into stores where dogs are not allowed. I do, however, have anger towards a store employee who will site a "No dogs allowed" rule to me, while allowing another owner and dog access.

[FilleBelle]

Originally Posted by JenTN

One of my biggest gripes, though is people who think dogs that can fit in a purse can go anywhere. People are always bringing small breeds into Target and carrying them or putting them in the buggy. And our Target has foods (for sale and an eatery) so it actually violates health codes. Nobody ever says anything to them. It really ticks me off. I would love to put Bo in the cart and dare anyone to say anything to me, if he would fit, LOL.

My cats could fit into a purse, but I don't bring them to places where pets aren't allowed. It's just plain rude.

I was under the impression that this is what we were discussing: Owners who are admitted to locations where dogs are not allowed because the dogs are small.

If the sign says, "No dogs allowed," then people with dogs should not be admitted. Not because it benefits me, but because it is a posted rule. To allow small dogs in and keep bigs dogs out is arbitrary.

If the rule is, in fact, that dogs are allowed as long as they are fully contained, then there is not a "No dogs allowed" rule in effect. But when I see the "No dogs allowed" sign on the grocery store, the Target, the indoor mall, and the restaurant, I expect that I will not also see someone's Maltese, regardless of how well contained it is. And yet somehow I do! There seem to be a tremendous number of small dog owners who will walk by a "No dogs allowed" sign and there seem to be a tremendous number of store employees who will allow them to do so.

[Dogstar]

Originally Posted by loratliff

I don't even call and ask, to be honest. As long as the establishment doesn't serve food or have signs explicitly stating "No Dogs Allowed," I go. I've never had any issues. We've gone to book stores, Wal-Greens, NorthPark Center (a huge mall that is extremely dog-friendly), etc. - basically anywhere I need to go except the grocery store!

Of course, Dallas is surprisingly dog-friendly. There's a city ordinance here that allows dogs on the patios of ANY restaurant with outdoor seating.

Um... Northpark does NOT allow dogs, nor do any Walgreens locations (because they sell food). I think you've been lucky because your dog is small.

[tigress]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

A more appropriate comparison would be you getting turned away from an R rated movie because you don't meet the age requirement, then watching your equally underage best friend go in because, well, she's just so mature!

I generally don't take my dog anywhere that isn't specifically dog friendly. This is mostly for my own protection. In the event that someone is irritated by me having my dog out in public, I can easily site store policy and get an employee on my side.

I think this is a silly attitude and total just jealousy.

Sorry, but a small dog is different than a big dog. You can have them in a pack and they stay out of the way. Then you don't have to worry about their tails knocking something off the second you turn attention (sometimes even when you are watching them. But come on, you are shopping, you are not going to be able to watch them every single second). They fit easier in the small aisles.

It's not "breedist". Toy dogs just fit better in stores. Fact of life. Yeah, they are both dogs, but size does matter in a case like this.

And I don't own one of the toys that you can easily take in any store, my pup is at least 36 lbs and growing (vet predicts prolly will be 45 lbs). I just think it's really petty for people with larger dogs to try to prevent people with smaller dogs from bringing their dgos into a store solely cause the larger dog cannot come in. I"m sorry, it's a very petty attitude and I fail to see why small dog owners should suffer cause larger dogs don't do as well in small spaces. The only reason I've seen people who want all dogs banned with no exceptions is "it isn't fair." Or it's "breedist", or "If I can't do it neither should she/he". I have yet to see a reason that doesn't trace back to pettyness jealousness. As I pointed out, there is very good reasons why a small dog would be ok where a large dog would not.

[Chicster]

Going back to the original question...

Nordstrom is dog friendly. I read it online somewhere and didn't really believe it so I called and spoke to the concierge... all dogs are allowed in all Nordstrom stores! Not sure about the rack though.

I've heard that some banks are okay with it too, but it depends on the branch manager.

I think that as long as the dog is well mannered and the store doesn't serve food, it's always worth asking.

Edited to add:

If you are in a big city there are also hotels that are pet friendly. Here in Seattle we have a Hotel Monaco and a W, which both welcome dogs. You can even take dogs into the bar/loung at the W.

[loratliff]

Originally Posted by Dogstar

Um... Northpark does NOT allow dogs, nor do any Walgreens locations (because they sell food). I think you've been lucky because your dog is small.

I work at NorthPark, Dogstar. My store (a high-end store, at that) even has it listed in our policies that leashed, well-behaved pets are permitted. NorthPark has been dog-friendly for years.

As far as Wal-Greens, my dog is not the only dog who visits this particular location. Perhaps it is just this location, but they take no issue with dogs. Also, Wal-Greens only sells non-perishable food items; when I said places that sell food, I was referring to grocery stores with produce out, indoor restaurants, etc.

[FilleBelle]

Originally Posted by tigress

I have yet to see a reason that doesn't trace back to pettyness jealousness.

Then you haven't read my post. I haven't got a problem with dogs in stores, regardless of their size. I have a problem with pet owners who breeze by "No Dogs Allowed" signs because they have a Pomeranian. I have a problem with employees who allow this to happen and then try to keep my dog out on the grounds that he is a dog. If the rules say no dogs allowed, then dogs shouldn't be allowed!

I am clearly hijacking this thread and should stop arguing.

[loratliff]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

Then you haven't read my post. I haven't got a problem with dogs in stores, regardless of their size. I have a problem with pet owners who breeze by "No Dogs Allowed" signs because they have a Pomeranian. I have a problem with employees who allow this to happen and then try to keep my dog out on the grounds that he is a dog. If the rules say no dogs allowed, then dogs shouldn't be allowed!

I think you are missing the point. No one on this topic (or that I've seen) has condoned breaking the rules just because their dog is little. I have a little dog, but I never have and never will take him some place where dogs aren't allowed just because he's little.

There are places we go where little dogs are allowed likely due to their ability to fit within a bag or be carried. If you were willing to carry your big dog, I'm sure you'd be allowed in with your dog as well.

As far as breedism... what? That's ridiculous. My dog isn't allowed in the big dog area of the dog park because of his size. Hell, that's just modern-day segregation! I think I'll go stage a sit-in. All said tongue-in-cheek, of course, but don't some of you have bigger things to worry about?

[Lonewolfblue]

Originally Posted by tigress

Sorry, but a small dog is different than a big dog. You can have them in a pack and they stay out of the way. Then you don't have to worry about their tails knocking something off the second you turn attention (sometimes even when you are watching them. But come on, you are shopping, you are not going to be able to watch them every single second). They fit easier in the small aisles.

True, small dogs are different than bigger dogs. They are much more noisy, IMO. At least the dogs I know around here. Also, if the sign says "No Dogs Allowed", then YOU should follow the rules. And if YOU are bringing in a small dog, whether in a carrier or not, YOU are breaking the rules and THEY are not enforcing the rules. I've seen people walk by with small dogs here at Walmart and Shopko, and almost every one of them would bark at almost everyone that walks by. VERY ANNOYING IMO. And from what I gather in this thread, it's ok to BREAK THE RULES if your dog is small and containable. Now I can see having a sign that says, "Only Small, Contained Dogs are Welcome". To me, that would be ok, and would not have anything against the establishment. But those establishments that posts No Dogs Allowed, and allows some dogs because of size, I completely disagree with this behavior. It would be the same as a bartender knowingly allowing a 15 year old in on a regular basis because he looks 18 or older. NO DOGS ALLOWED means just that, NO DOGS ALLOWED, PERIOD. And if they want to make exceptions, then post the proper sign.

Edit:
Oh, and Tigress, when I say YOU, I'm not directing anything at you personally, and have nothing against your opinions, as they are very much welcome. Just want to point out that it's not a personal attack at anyone, it's just my opinions. I'm just using the term YOU for anyone who thinks it's ok to take their dog into an establishment (small or not, contained or not) when there's a NO DOGS ALLOWED sign posted on the front door. And if there are exceptions to the rule, then they should be posted.

Originally Posted by Kotone

I just saw Nessa's post about socializing Callahan, and how she was able to take him to Home Depot and Michaels...And I was wondering if there are specific stores and things(besides pet stores) that allow dogs to come along. I'm needing to socialize Logan as well, and would love to bring him with me to more places if I can. Where have you gone with your dog where people didn't make you leave? Lol.

There are many places you can take dogs. Lowe's and Home Depot are 2 good ones around my area. Many small businesses here as well welcome dogs, and even my bank. The bank even has dog treats for them when they come in. All it takes is asking before taking them in when it's not posted.

[Ginny01OT]

Originally Posted by poodleholic

There are many ways to socialize one's puppy, without going into stores or malls, most of which prohibit dogs, and most of which can be overwhelming to the young puppy. One must keep in mind the fear periods, as well.

Strip malls are busy places rich with diversity of people, places, and things. Just hanging out near the doors of a supermarket will provide a variety of people. The noise and movement of various vehicles are good, as are different ground materials underfoot.

Fire stations are great places to have your puppy meet and greet men in uniform, and they may even provide the flashing lights and movement of a firetruck for you. My local fire fighters know Maddy and Beau well, as we often stop in to say hello when out and about.

Children's playgrounds offer "little people," along with their noise and movements, differing greatly from that of adults. Parks with bicyclists, skate boarders, and just people walking, some with dogs, some not.

Exposure to garbage trucks and others that beep, beep, beep when backing up are other things to get your puppy familiar with. Street or sidewalk grates scare the heck out've dogs who have not been exposed to them, so seek these out as well.

The more diverse the exposure to people, places, and things, the more likely you will have a dog who is confident and non-reactive when coming upon something out of the ordinary.

You are absolutely correct--I even introduced Riley to the mailman when he was a puppy so they are friends (I laugh because my mailman owns two pitbulls--lol)

We actually have an extremely upscale strip mall near us that allows dogs in all stores--we walked around there the other day and had so much fun--we couldn't really afford anything (but some underwear on sale at Victoria's Secret--lol) but it was sooo good for him and us to walk around, go into stores where he had to behave and let strangers pat him on the head, touch his tail and ears, etc.

When we got home, he was exhausted. In food stores/bakeries in our town I pop my head in and ask them to pass me a coffee cake thru the door--they are more than happy to wrap it up, take my money and come back with is my change, etc. It is a good lesson in diligence for the dog.