ridiculous

Spicy1_VV · 05-10-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovemygreys

Very true. Even the most cautious owners - even those who practice recall with their dogs all the time - can still have a dog get loose. Accidents do happen. That said, if one of my dogs were to get loose and cause an accident (doG forbid), I would feel responsible for the damages caused. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to control my animals and if one gets loose - despite my best efforts - then I'm responsible.

I'd have to agree. I almost hit 2 horses yesterday, I couldn't see them at first b/c of the hill but luckily I had already slowed down as to not hit the dog. So I was driving less then normal speed (under 55) and was able to break and go off to the shoulder to avoid hitting them. I consider the horse owners to be responsible owners, this is the 1st time they've been loose that I've known, no one was home either but the gate was open which they probably figured out how to open. However if I'd hit them/they ran into me I'd expect that they would be responsible. Animals are living beings, you can't control them 24/7 like an object, you know that full well before getting one. Thats just the point you can't control them 100% of the time. If you can't live with the fact they might do something that you'll be held responsible for despite your best effort then don't get a dog, cat, horse, python, ect.

Oh and the dog owner I consider irresponsible. Since it is NEVER contained and I have to slow down every time and try to not hit him/her. I've almost hit that dog twice. I shouldn't have to swerve and slow down because someone thinks their dog should run free and chase cars all day everyday. I still try to not hit the dog b/c I don't want to wreck nor do I want to hit the dog because its not his/her fault. If someone does hit them it will be the owners fault that they let the dog run loose.

Durbkat · 05-10-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigress

yeah, because there is always some one at home at your house to do that...

Some of us actually have a house that does end up being empty cause everyone is at work/school/somewhere else.

Sorry, but there is no way you can 100% gaurentee your dog will *never* get out.

That being said, I can concede the point even if it was an accident and the person was being as responsible as possible, she is still responsible for the damage to the car.

Well if I had a family where there were times no one was home besides the dog, the dog would get crated or baby gated in a room.

tigress · 05-11-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

Well if I had a family where there were times no one was home besides the dog, the dog would get crated or baby gated in a room.

My point is no matter what you do, things can happen. THere is no way you can 100% gaurentee the dog won't get out. What happens if that dog figures out how to open his crate (or chews his way out, I've heard of dogs doing it even with wire crates) or just pushes ont hat baby gate enough to get it to fall over (or jumps over it)?

Durbkat · 05-11-2008, 01:45 AM

I suppose that is possible. I guess I was just thinking about a toy breed such as a shih tzu. They can't do none of those things.

LukeJohn · 05-11-2008, 07:09 AM

"Judge dismisses suit against owners of dog killed on Cloquet highway" - http://www.startribune.com/local/18820339.html

animalcraker · 05-11-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

I suppose that is possible. I guess I was just thinking about a toy breed such as a shih tzu. They can't do none of those things.

I wouldn't be so sure of yourself. My Mini Dachshund knows how to open both wire crates and plastic crates from the inside. And he also figured out a way to get over the baby gate I had set up so he wouldn't go in the bedrooms. I think he studied how the cat did it and followed suit, but I really have no idea how he did it. He also figured out how to jump on his crate to get on the dineer table; when I moved the crate he figured out that the table chairs have wheels and moved them so he could get on the table. Just cause they're small doesn't mean they aren't smart enough to figure a way out. Heck even hamsters named "Houdini" figure a way to get out.

Willowy · 05-11-2008, 07:20 PM

I hit a deer last October.......$3000 damage to my car. Who can I sue for that? If I hit a dog I'd be really upset, and I certainly wouldn't be looking to sue someone (unless they pushed the dog into the street....then I'd sue just on principle). That's what insurance is for.

Mycathinks hesadog · 05-12-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeJohn

"Judge dismisses suit against owners of dog killed on Cloquet highway" - http://www.startribune.com/local/18820339.html

Thank goodness. Maybe there is some hope for the legal system yet. This is a tragic story yes, but the fact that it has to play out in a courtroom is well... rediculous.

This is why people have insurance. The fact that people need to drag this into a courtroom is a great example of how easy it is to sue, and why insurance companies take too much of our money by not paying out claims.

Granted I am being assumptive that neither party tried to settle through traditional/rational channels prior to suing.

Roscosmom · 05-12-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by animalcraker

I wouldn't be so sure of yourself. My Mini Dachshund knows how to open both wire crates and plastic crates from the inside. And he also figured out a way to get over the baby gate I had set up so he wouldn't go in the bedrooms. I think he studied how the cat did it and followed suit, but I really have no idea how he did it. He also figured out how to jump on his crate to get on the dineer table; when I moved the crate he figured out that the table chairs have wheels and moved them so he could get on the table. Just cause they're small doesn't mean they aren't smart enough to figure a way out. Heck even hamsters named "Houdini" figure a way to get out.

lol, no kidding! Yesterday morning I went to uncover my baby conures cage..and she was OUT of it, under the sheet. I couldn't figure out for the life of me how she did it..but she did.

wolfsong442 · 05-12-2008, 10:02 AM

This just really makes me sick and makes me lose the little faith in humanity that I had previously.

It's sad that the worth of a dog's life isn't more than the price of a car. It doesn't matter to me if it cost you one hundred or one million dollars...it's a living creature. Even if it was an accident, that's no excuse to be so callous.

Love's_Sophie · 05-12-2008, 12:00 PM

I am not going to respond to this one as 'fervantly' as I did a few days ago on the cat forum I am on, but I will just blatantly say this

Know your laws...leash laws and at large dog laws protect the public, including drivers from damages caused by loose animals; that most of you seem to think that a driver who hits a dog should be the one held responsible for the dog being there? We are responsible for ANY damage our pets cause while they are loose; and it doesn't matter if they 'just' got loose either...when we take on a pet, we take on the responsibility to protect the public from any damage they may cause while running at large. What if that same dog had bitten a kid, or dug up a yard, or killed a neighbors cat? You all would be outraged at the owner...to me there isn't much difference in the sense that WE are responsible for what happens when a dog is loose. Yes, those three 'crimes' hold differing consequences, but the OWNER IS STILL LIABLE!!! Pets are considered property, just as livestock are, and property can cause damage, no matter how big or small.

Keep your animals contained, and fix fences when needed; and teach your dogs to stay back from your doors when they are being opened, or closed.

And considering a bird that hits the windshield can crack it (even a small bird), that little dog could very well have caused that damage to the car...we also don't really know everything, because we weren't there; the guy may very well have been going the speed limit, because some city limit speeds are higher than others (here we sit between 35-45...all depends on the area...and if a dog darts out from behind a fence, or from some bushes, there is little time to react...even if you swerve, you may still hit it.

shewolf4 · 05-12-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

I suppose that is possible. I guess I was just thinking about a toy breed such as a shih tzu. They can't do none of those things.

I could introduce you to a few that will give your plenty of surprises

never say never- accidents happen, but I think we have to put it into perspective. In general you multiply the speed of the car with the weight of the object that thats the force you get hit with. Same goes for children unrestraint- "just" 25 miles per hour x 40 pound child- no one will be able to hold 800 pounds. 13 pound dog with as little speed as 30 miles per hour gives you a impact of 390 pounds- can do quite some damage. No way can we ALWAYS control everything- accidents happen- thats why we have insurance- or should have anyway. I feel sorry for the people with the dog, but also feel for the guy whose car got damages- he has to work 2 jobs to make ends meet- doesnt spell "rich, I can afford to take off" to me. That said, I think we can learn from that and work with our dogs to cut chances of anything happening like that as low as possible

animalcraker · 05-12-2008, 01:52 PM

It seems some people have missed the extra details from the first story and second story

Quote:

Now Ely is suing the Munthes for about $1,100 for damage to his car, time he had to take off from his two jobs to get the car repaired, and court fees.

The $1100 is not just to fix his car, it's to cover for time off and court cost. That means he didn't end up with $1100 in damage to his car alone.

Quote:

Pieces of the bumper were propelled into the radiator when it hit the dog

Radiator can be very expensive to fix and in foreign cars it can be very difficult to fix as well. Hondas are more fragile than they look, especially if it's older and has endured years of weather. Plastic componets of the grill get dried out easily becoming britle. It only takes a small bit of debrie to get into the radiator to cause major damage.

Quote:

Munthe said she has always been worried about the busy road the family lives on.

Even the pet owners knew it was a busy road that would be dangerous for animals to be on.

Quote:

Judge Gerald Maher said neither side could prove the other had been negligent, so he dismissed the suit.

I don't know how the judge came up with this one considering it was the owners negligence that the pet was in the road in the first place, wether they meant it or not. But we weren't there to hear how each side presented it's case either.

Quote:

Ely said he was driving the posted speed limit of 55 mph that evening

Thats more than fast enough for a 13 lbs dog to cause damage, and could have easily cause the damage Ely claims it did.

Quote:

After hitting Fester, Ely turned around and used his car's headlights to help the Munthes find his body.

This just shows how difficult is would have been form him to see the dog comming in the first place. And the guy wasn't a heartless creep that just hit the dog and didn't care. He turned around and helped the owners find thier dog, which they probly didn't know was dead at that moment.

Quote:

His insurance wouldn't cover the damage

If his insurance did cover the damage then he wouldn't have the need or right to sue.

ACampbell · 05-12-2008, 02:17 PM

Personally, I have a newer car, and it's a plastic death-trap (ford Mustang)...I bumped, and I mean at less than 5 mph into a post and it literally ripped my front bumper off...goes to tell you how good new cars asre in accidents.
With that being said, I would feel bad for the dog owner, but if it was unavoidable (at 55 mph you can figure it's going to take more than a few feet to stop if you are trying to avoid an animal) and my insurance isn't going to cover it (for whatever reason) then yes I would sue the pet owner...had it not been for their negligence the accident would not have occurred.
With that being said, if my dog ran out in the road and caused massive damage to a vehicle, I would feel responsible because if I had been more attentive to my pet they would not have hit them...and I would offer to pay the damages outside of court.
So if it was dismissed both parties lose to be honest. The family lost their pet, and the poor driver lost money due to the damages to their vehicle. I'd definetely be upset if my car was damaged and I had to pay for the repairs out of my pocket due to a pet owners negligence.

Durbkat · 05-12-2008, 03:23 PM

I don't feel that the guy should have included the price for being off work because he did not to take off of work while his car was being repaired. He could have carpooled with a friend, took the bus, rode a bike, rented a car, took a taxi.

ACampbell · 05-12-2008, 03:26 PM

Ya never know...maybe he lived out in the sticks? If my vehicle broke down my husband would have no way to get to work because nobody he works with lives this far out and they don't do taxi service (but then again I'm really out in the sticks here) and riding a bike 30 miles to his work probably, although healthy, wouldn't be an option going in at 4 AM for work.
Can't guess on variables like that. Maybe that's why he has 2 jobs, to afford the gas to go to the first one! **note I'm only half joking**

Love's_Sophie · 05-12-2008, 03:33 PM

It all depends on where the guy actually lives; taxis traveling out to the country are EXPENSIVE!!! where he lives, may not even have a bus route, if it is a 'smaller' town. He had to take off time to go to court...because court is not a 'weekend' thing.

I agree with the 2 jobs, thing, too...If he is working 2 jobs, he is definitely not a rich guy...and if I was in that position, I too, would have to include some of that time off, in order to be compensated adequately...The guy probably cannot afford full coverage on his vehicle, so that is probably why he had to atleast try and be compensated...liability only covers if you hit someone else; it only covers who you hit...it wouldn't cover you in an incident like this, or the damage caused by an accident like this one.

To me, the price is fair, given the circumstance...of course, if the owners had taken responsibility for the incident then the guy wouldn't have had to go to court...but maybe they don't have an insurance that covers their dog either...in some cases like this, no one wins.

animalcraker · 05-12-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

I don't feel that the guy should have included the price for being off work because he did not to take off of work while his car was being repaired. He could have carpooled with a friend, took the bus, rode a bike, rented a car, took a taxi.

Even if he won his case he would not have gotten pay for missing work. In the law you have to make an attempt to mitigate your damages. If he had rented a car to go to work than he would have gotten that cost, but not pay for missed work. Everyone who sues asks for pay off work and nobody gets it, the judge just deducts that amount from thier winnings. So if he sued for $1100 and $100 was for missed pay then the judge would deduct $100 and he'd only get $1000.