[Quincy]

Originally Posted by afcgirl

B-Line,

Thanks for starting this thread, I enjoyed reading about the differences in the two dogs. I am very allergic to dogs and have been considering a PWD or an Australian Labradoodle for my next dog. I have a bichon poo puppy that I just adore.

You mentioned that you are very allergic to dogs, then you mentioned you have a bichon poo puppy, sounds like you are NOT allergic to that bichon poo puppy. I've worked many years in Hospitals and I've come across quite a few who are very allergic to dogs, and if they were walking down the street and saw a dog approaching them they would turn around and walk the other way rather briskly.

If indeed you are very allergic to dogs then I suggest that you seek the advice of your doctor and preferably allergy specialist, do not assume some sort of "breed thing". They may recommend several things in regards to allergies, and if you are considering any dog then they can allergy test you to saliva and dander samples from the dog that you might be interested in obtaining, and a breeder could send such samples in appropriate containers. Take care for people who are very allergy have been know to die from the things they are very allergic to.
.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by Quincy

Via this link is a video showing an Australian Labradoodle which some people refer to as a doodle. In the video you can see what the dog looks like including his temperament, maybe that dog might be related to my Quincy and I might later check to see if he is.
http://www.news10.net/video/player_n...?aid=29957&bw=
.

i once tried to read a book to Oinest, and he ran out the doggie door and left me.
actually, it was quite technical...maybe he needed something light.

Originally Posted by Tink

I simply don't understand why people are so up in arms about certain hybrid dog types. They bash everything from their name to their prices. What is it that people find so threatening about them? If we all liked the same thing there would be no diversity. How bland that would be!

I, like everyone else, have my favorite types of dogs; yet I don't waste time sitting around bashing the ones that don't appeal to me. No one is forced to buy a hybrid. If you don't like 'em, don't have one. Simple enough solution it seems.

didn't you know that goldendoodle breeders represent everything which is bad in the world of dogs?
and perhaps everything that is wrong with the world in general.

if you fight goldendoodle breeding, you are fighting evil at its very source.

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I And if you read my post without bias you would have read the part where I stated all breeders (that would include purists) are irresponsible until "proven" otherwise. I think you're reading only what you want to read and by definition that is close mindedness.

CB, i have been on for a few months now, and i haven't seen you get passionate against breeders of well-bred purebreed dogs.
only when the subject comes to people claiming well-bred crosses.

do you actually take the SAME stand on all breeding?

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by dog-man

do you actually take the SAME stand on all breeding?

You must have joined after the AB1634 threads. The history of my responses to those threads I think is very telling. So yes, I have a very strict stand on breeding. "Buyer beware" is very much in effect with all breeders - it needs to be.

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

You must have joined after the AB1634 threads. The history of my responses to those threads I think is very telling. So yes, I have a very strict stand on breeding. "Buyer beware" is very much in effect with all breeders - it needs to be.

I remember, and I too posted in the AB1634 threads, maybe later when the senate sits we might all post yet again in yet some more AB1634 threads

To add as I just checked the Bill's Status and it's still an "Active Bill" and "Further hearing to be set", link to status:-
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/...04_status.html
.

[afcgirl]

Originally Posted by Quincy

You mentioned that you are very allergic to dogs, then you mentioned you have a bichon poo puppy, sounds like you are NOT allergic to that bichon poo puppy. I've worked many years in Hospitals and I've come across quite a few who are very allergic to dogs, and if they were walking down the street and saw a dog approaching them they would turn around and walk the other way rather briskly.

If indeed you are very allergic to dogs then I suggest that you seek the advice of your doctor and preferably allergy specialist, do not assume some sort of "breed thing". They may recommend several things in regards to allergies, and if you are considering any dog then they can allergy test you to saliva and dander samples from the dog that you might be interested in obtaining, and a breeder could send such samples in appropriate containers. Take care for people who are very allergy have been know to die from the things they are very allergic to.
.

Thank you for your concern. I should clarify that when I say I am very allergic to dogs I mean that my eyes tear up and I sneeze. I never get asthmatic from them (although I do from cats). I never believed that I would ever be able to get a dog, but it is really unbelievable I have no reaction at all to my bichon poo, I can touch his fur and then my eyes and nothing. It is wonderful. I know if I get another dog I will still have to test it out carefully before purchasing even if it is supposedly hypoallergenic.

[rosemaryninja]

Originally Posted by dog-man

i once tried to read a book to Oinest, and he ran out the doggie door and left me.
actually, it was quite technical...maybe he needed something light.

*cough* Tolkien? *cough*

[Quincy]

Originally Posted by afcgirl

Thank you for your concern. I should clarify that when I say I am very allergic to dogs I mean that my eyes tear up and I sneeze. I never get asthmatic from them (although I do from cats). I never believed that I would ever be able to get a dog, but it is really unbelievable I have no reaction at all to my bichon poo, I can touch his fur and then my eyes and nothing. It is wonderful. I know if I get another dog I will still have to test it out carefully before purchasing even if it is supposedly hypoallergenic.

Maybe you might be only mildly allergic to dogs. Just a thought, as some dogs may have lower levels of the proteins that you are allergic too this maybe below the levels required to produce an allergic response in you. Even those with mild allergies to dogs still need to take at least some care, and who knows just maybe the next bichon poo you come across just might cause you to have an allergy response.
.

[KaseyT]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

You must have joined after the AB1634 threads. The history of my responses to those threads I think is very telling. So yes, I have a very strict stand on breeding. "Buyer beware" is very much in effect with all breeders - it needs to be.

There is no single group of home breeders more responsible for canine suffering then pit bull breeders.

The search feature kinds of sucks so I may be mistaken, but quick search or your posts did not turn up any criticism of this group of the kind you regularly heap on mixed breed breeders.

I guess this is understandable considering the DF regulars bias for pits and against "designer dogs".

[Pai]

Originally Posted by KaseyT

There is no single group of home breeders more responsible for canine suffering then pit bull breeders.

The search feature kinds of sucks so I may be mistaken, but quick search or your posts did not turn up any criticism of this group of the kind you regularly heap on mixed breed breeders.

I guess this is understandable considering the DF regulars bias for pits and against "designer dogs".

Do you have proof that all pit bull breeders are irresponsible? You may want to clarify before you make a statement that is smearing all pit bull breeders as being responsible for the suffering of dogs. Abusive and irresponsible DOG OWNERS cause more canine suffering than anyone else, PERIOD. It's not responsible breeders and owners dumping dogs in kill-shelters and neglecting and abusing them.

People on this board are biased against bad breeders. The very concept of 'designer dogs', being rooted in a fad and cute brand-naming of mutts in order to sell them as 'special hybrids' is, at it's core, a shady unethical concept. People then make the leap (rightly or wrongly) to say that all people who participate in promoting hybrids, are guilty in some form of enabling the bad breeders. The fact that the reason 99% of hybrids were originally created just to cash in on a fad is what upsets people. They feel folks who encourage and add to that are not doing the right thing by their dogs.

I still say that we're all arguing at cross-purposes here and missing the real issue we all are really mad about, which is unethical breeding practices. That has nothing to do with hybrids or purebreds per se, but it affects all dogs equally.

Arguing over whether or not hybrids should exist or be bred is not constructive, and there is no way to 'put the cat back into the bag' so to speak... you can 'undo' designer dogs. Therefore, we should focus on what CAN be fixed about the whole 'designer dog problem' and the larger 'dog breeder problem' itself -- which is unethical breeding practices. Laws need to be changed and enforced... buyers need to be educated, and communities need to step up and stop ignoring the problem.

For too many years, people have been buying puppies blindly, not caring or knowing where they come from, or understanding why knowing that should be important in the first place... and THAT is what is allowing bad breeders to keep going... because if it wasn't doodles, they'd be breeding the same ol' purebreds that have been suffering in Mills for decades... the doodles themselves are NOT the core problem here.

Bashing one or the other side in the designer dog debate here is just pointless infighting that is not going to make any positive difference in anything.It's just dividing two camps of dog lovers who should be working together.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by KaseyT

There is no single group of home breeders more responsible for canine suffering then pit bull breeders.

The search feature kinds of sucks so I may be mistaken, but quick search or your posts did not turn up any criticism of this group of the kind you regularly heap on mixed breed breeders.

I guess this is understandable considering the DF regulars bias for pits and against "designer dogs".

Is this what this is? Pits v. "doodles"? I'm unable to reason why a "doodle" advocate (if that's what you are) would want to include "doodles" in the same argument with Pits.

I'm also unable to reason how one suffering is better than another. Perhaps you could explain that?

I also don't recall one incident where a pit breeder or advocate claimed their dogs were the best thing since sliced bred and the answer to all problems in dogdom...certainly not like how "doodle" propaganda is spread. In fact, the Pit advocates on our forum have always been quick to point out that these dogs are not for everyone, nor the answer to the problems of dogdom. So I'm not sure how I can argue with these people other than to applaud their stance.

But rest assured if a Pit breeder or advocate makes a claim they they are void of all the problems in dogdom and "fresh," I'll have an argument to that. It's not my fault Pit advocates choose a better approach at the problem. So search away or consider the approach "doodle" fans use.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by Pai

The fact that the reason 99% of hybrids were originally created just to cash in on a fad is what upsets people.

most of what you say in your post, i agree with.

but it is FACTS like this, "99% of hybrids", which get pulled out from some smelly spot of the human body, which i find difficult to chew on.

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

I also don't recall one incident where a pit breeder or advocate claimed their dogs were the best thing since sliced bred and the answer to all problems in dogdom...certainly not like how "doodle" propaganda is spread. .

i'm not sure where doodle people claim that doodles are the answer for everyone.

for people who love them, they are even better than sliced bread...personally, i think sliced bread is overrated.

the problems of genetics in purebred dogs is not to be solved by mere cross-breeding.
what i find objectionable is when people say the crosses are bad for genetics, when the opposite is probably true.

don't exaggerate our claims, and you won't have to fight our position so hard.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by dog-man

what i find objectionable is when people say the crosses are bad for genetics, when the opposite is probably true.

I've explained this numerous times but why it's overlooked is beyond me. The mucks who breed purebreds are the same mucks who breed "doodles". The genetics mean nothing if you're working in a non-sterile environment. As evidence by the genetic problems that do turn up in your "doodles".

don't exaggerate our claims, and you won't have to fight our position so hard.

Don't assume my fight is with "doodles" and perhaps you'll get my position.

[Pai]

Originally Posted by dog-man

most of what you say in your post, i agree with.

but it is FACTS like this, "99% of hybrids", which get pulled out from some smelly spot of the human body, which i find difficult to chew on.

Do you really think that the recent explosion of 'designer dogs' is anything BUT a product of the fad started by Labradoodles and Goldendoodles? All these Puggles and Shi-Poos and Chi-Chis and whatever the heck else breeds that are being marketed under the 'designer dog' label (the fact that they're being sold under that title at all speaks volumes, in my opinion) are not being created by people who care about genetic diversity and health in dogs... they're being made to grab a buck because the average joe thinks these 'hybrids' are something cool and hip.

Out of the thousands of 'hybrid' breeds out there now, I seriously doubt any LESS than 99% are being made simply for novelty sake, and nothing more. There is no proof towards even HALF of them being created for any intelligent, purposeful reason. ALL their breeders spout 'hybrid vigor' because its a SELLING POINT, not because they give two hoots about the actual health of their dogs. It's just as stupid as purebred puppylmillers who go on about 'registered' and 'papers' as if that makes their dogs somehow 'quality'. It's all just commercial shill. Truly reputable breeders would actually put their money where their mouth is, but most out there DO NOT, and it doesn't matter what they're breeding.

[JDub]

Give me a few months, and I'll really be able to give you a comparison between a PWD and a Golden. My family and I are getting a PWD over Memorial Day weekend...to replace a Golden that we lost last August. This is in large part thanks to B-Line who was a wealth of information on PWD's (we were torn between the portie and a doodle).

Cant wait to have my Portie puppy!

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by Pai

Out of the thousands of 'hybrid' breeds out there now, I seriously doubt any LESS than 99% are being made simply for novelty sake, and nothing more. .

here you go again.
where do you get this idea of thousands (or even hundreds) of hybrid breeds?

you can probably find many new names...and probably some litters have been experimented with for most of them...but there are relatively few that you can currently find any breeders for.

the truth is, that the ones which have significant numbers of consumers, are the ones that might have something positive to them.

and not all of us are motivated by fad.

people bought microwaves and cellphones, not because of a fad, but because it was a great idea.
same with new dog "breeds".
be open-minded to the POSSIBILITY that some might be a good idea, when a good breeders and educated consumers are involved.

[ACampbell]

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Is this what this is? Pits v. "doodles"? I'm unable to reason why a "doodle" advocate (if that's what you are) would want to include "doodles" in the same argument with Pits.

I'm also unable to reason how one suffering is better than another. Perhaps you could explain that?

I also don't recall one incident where a pit breeder or advocate claimed their dogs were the best thing since sliced bred and the answer to all problems in dogdom...certainly not like how "doodle" propaganda is spread. In fact, the Pit advocates on our forum have always been quick to point out that these dogs are not for everyone, nor the answer to the problems of dogdom. So I'm not sure how I can argue with these people other than to applaud their stance.

But rest assured if a Pit breeder or advocate makes a claim they they are void of all the problems in dogdom and "fresh," I'll have an argument to that. It's not my fault Pit advocates choose a better approach at the problem. So search away or consider the approach "doodle" fans use.

Yes, pit's are the end-all-be-all of dogs and everyone should own one...no, not really, this was a feeble attempt at making light of how a Doodle post turns into Pitbull breeder bashing as mentioned in previous posts.
You know what has done the most damage to all dog breeds? Stupid, irresponsible and generally bad breeding/socialization/owners.

Personally, I don't agree with making hybrids to fit into a fad...just as I don't agree with the fad of people with the toy chihuahua's etc being carried around in purses or in dog strollers. Just because a celebrity does it or endorses it, does not make it right...gawd what a bunch of sheep.
That being said, if you want to go out and buy any dog because it's a fad or it shows you have money and can afford such an animal...you're in it for the wrong reason. People that buy from breeders that are breeding for color or because it's whats "hot" today...are just as bad as the people breeding dogs for them.
These people producing doodles and poos and whatever else aren't doing it in the best interest of the breed or to make a new breed...they are doing it for money, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by dog-man

and not all of us are motivated by fad.

people bought microwaves and cellphones, not because of a fad, but because it was a great idea.
same with new dog "breeds".
be open-minded to the POSSIBILITY that some might be a good idea, when a good breeders and educated consumers are involved.

I didn't buy a microwave or cell phone because "it was a great idea" - people buy these items because they help their daily lives...by being able to call someone from the road if your car is broken down, being able to reach someone no matter where they are at...etc. Or by making defrosting food or cooking food faster and easier for an increasingly hectic world.
If you could turn back time to one that wasn't as fast paced and people would stop and help each other or you have time to cook a full meal after work then these things wouldn't be a necessity.

No pet is a "necessity" unless it's being used for a service animal for someone who otherwise could not get around.

[KaseyT]

Originally Posted by Pai

Do you have proof that all pit bull breeders are irresponsible? You may want to clarify before you make a statement that is smearing all pit bull breeders as being responsible for the suffering of dogs. Abusive and irresponsible DOG OWNERS cause more canine suffering than anyone else, PERIOD. It's not responsible breeders and owners dumping dogs in kill-shelters and neglecting and abusing them.

I believe I said, "There is no single group of home breeders more responsible for canine suffering then pit bull breeders."

That does not mean all pit breeders are irresponsible, it means that irresponsible breeders out number responsible breeders by about 1000 to 1.

The problem with pits isn't just back yard breeders, it's back alley breeders. Do you know haw many pits are STILL being bred as pit fighters and street fighters. Do you know how many pits are being sold at 5 weeks old to baggy panted hip hoppers and thugs on the street.

There are 9,000 pits on petfinder available for adoption and probably the same number euthanized every month.

Where did these pits come from? Not a pet store.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by ACampbell

I didn't buy a microwave or cell phone because "it was a great idea" - people buy these items because they help their daily lives...by being able to call someone from the road if your car is broken down, being able to reach someone no matter where they are at...etc. Or by making defrosting food or cooking food faster and easier for an increasingly hectic world.
If you could turn back time to one that wasn't as fast paced and people would stop and help each other or you have time to cook a full meal after work then these things wouldn't be a necessity.

No pet is a "necessity" unless it's being used for a service animal for someone who otherwise could not get around.

your response is actually irrelevant to my point...it's just not worth bothering to argue.

[ACampbell]

Hmmm, I see a lot of complaining about the "pit problem" but no real solutions here.
Besides, since when does the whole doodle/hybrid/designer dog thing have anything to do with pits? Also, if you can convince gangbangers to start buying up Doodle or designer dog puppies...by all means, do so, it would save some of us who actually care a lot of headaches.

Originally Posted by dog-man

your response is actually irrelevant to my point...it's just not worth bothering to argue.

My point is that you are trying to justify something by making it seem to be a necessity, which is not the case. If you intend on making an analogy, use one that is related to the topic you are trying to prove, otherwise you lose your audience with the irrelevance.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by rosemaryninja

*cough* Tolkien? *cough*

*tries to figure out a way to turn yet another doodle thread into another LOTR thread*

Dog-man, I had to re-watch all the movies, and I blame you.

And Oinest.