[JDub]

Originally Posted by ACampbell

Wait how's that work anyway? I'm from the West coast, relocated (against my will) to the East Coast...so where's that stick me, or my dogs for that matter (ones from the West coast and one is from the East Coast) hehe!

Hmmm....you're a little of this, and a little of that. I think that makes you a Doodle.

[B-Line]

Jdub, look at the Curly PWD on the right, if that's not an Afro, than I don't know what is,

[JDub]

Oh man, you're killing me with the Show-Fro Seth. Yeah, then can be pretty froofy....but we'll never groom ours like that. This one is also curly, but without the Froof... (and you should recognize the dog, or at least the breeder)



Besides, even if ours is froofy...it just means that she'll have soul, and can dance better than your dog.

[B-Line]

Originally Posted by dog-man

i wouldn't have a debate of which breed is better based on books...but for my own personal decisions, i trust books quite a bit.

Dog-Man,

I would say, the best way to try to predict, what a pure breed dog traits may be, would be to ask the people who own them, raise them, grade them and decide which ones are worthy of breeding and which ones should just be pets.

If you go the PWDCA.ORG website, you can read, the standard for the breed. What the breed will almost always be, unless it is a "faulted" dog.

So, based on what the Judges and Breed club say about what the dogs should be, I think it's fair to assume, you're books are slightly wrong: (From the Portuguese Water Dog Club of America, website)

Temperament
An animal of spirited disposition, self-willed, brave, and very resistant to fatigue. A dog of exceptional intelligence and a loyal companion, it obeys its master with facility and apparent pleasure. It is obedient with those who look after it or with those for whom it works.

So what you're saying is, the dog is not intelligent enough? Or loyal enough? Or obedient enough? If the breed standard says, that is exactly what the dog excels at, then how can a Doodle be even better at those things?? Am I missing something here?

[ACampbell]

Originally Posted by JDub

Hmmm....you're a little of this, and a little of that. I think that makes you a Doodle.

Nooooooo...I swear, I'm not a cross between a poodle of any sort (I have straight black hair) maybe an Afgan hound though.

[B-Line]

Originally Posted by JDub

Oh man, you're killing me with the Show-Fro Seth.

I knew I was going to get you with that Show-Fro picture, LOL..... I know you won't let your dog FRO, neither will I let mine, ever be "Lion Clipped"...

I recognize that picture from Theresa... I forgot the name of her dog though.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by ACampbell

So if you want to be technical, as far as adding up a score based on say, intelligence...5/5 being the best.
Say a Golden Retriever gets a 5 on the scale...that's half the dog's parentage there, and say a Poodle only got a 1...so the best you could do is to add the two together and divide by 2...coming up with 3...

yeah, but standard poodles (along with border collies) are off the charts in intelligence, and goldens are at the very top of the list.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by dog-man

yeah, but standard poodles (along with border collies) are off the charts in intelligence, and goldens are at the very top of the list.

And according to those lists, shelties are supposed to be one of the smartest breeds and I can tell you Trey is definitely not a smart dog.

Dogs are individuals.

I've lived with 5 of the breeds listed in the top 10 usually when they talk about intelligence and I'd honestly list them in a totally different order than you hear...

[ACampbell]

Originally Posted by dog-man

yeah, but standard poodles (along with border collies) are off the charts in intelligence, and goldens are at the very top of the list.

That doesn't mean that the one the "breeder" crossed was exceptionally intelligent though...anyway I was making a general statement.
I've seen some pretty dumb acting Goldens...even though it's a breed trait to be intelligent, that doesn't mean they all are.
Just because both of your parents are Rocket Scientists doesn't mean you don't have a C average!

[Laurelin]

Wow, just realized every breed I've ever owned is listed in the top 10.

I must have a thing for 'smart' dogs.

[JDub]

Originally Posted by dog-man

yeah, but standard poodles (along with border collies) are off the charts in intelligence, and goldens are at the very top of the list.

Whoa...when I did the same exercise, you called my math dopey or something (too lazy to scroll up).

And yeah, poodles are intelligent, but....but.....its a..... a poodle.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by B-Line

Temperament
An animal of spirited disposition, self-willed, brave, and very resistant to fatigue. A dog of exceptional intelligence and a loyal companion, it obeys its master with facility and apparent pleasure. It is obedient with those who look after it or with those for whom it works.

So what you're saying is, the dog is not intelligent enough? Or loyal enough? Or obedient enough? If the breed standard says, that is exactly what the dog excels at, then how can a Doodle be even better at those things?? Am I missing something here?

actually, i wouldn't trust what a breed club has to say...very often, you have to read in between the lines to get the truth.

"spirited" and "self-willed" and "very resistant to fatigue" sound good, and can be good...but these words also send possible warning signals for my tastes.

if they are ok with strangers who come to the house, but not exceptional, they probably wouldn't mention it.

these dogs might be as great as you say...but i know the sources i trust more than others.

[ACampbell]

Lol JDub...you need to make an average when you're adding 2 things together...which you didn't...but I understood where you were going with it

And that's not to say that besides intelligence there aren't other factors to consider...
Look at some of the breeds predispositions to specific illnesses/diseases/heriditary illnesses...
You took it as "This is THIS" and nothing more...there's so much more to consider.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by JDub

And yeah, poodles are intelligent, but....but.....its a..... a poodle.

yeah, that's why i mix them with goldens.

[JDub]

Originally Posted by ACampbell

Nooooooo...I swear, I'm not a cross between a poodle of any sort (I have straight black hair) maybe an Afgan hound though.

I think you just made B-Line's point about Doodles... you wont always get the desired effects.

That said, sorry to hear about your genetically flawed coat.

Originally Posted by dog-man

actually, i wouldn't trust what a breed club has to say...very often, you have to read in between the lines to get the truth.

But you'll trust some random person who writes a book?


Didnt Charlie Manson write a book once??

[ACampbell]

Originally Posted by dog-man

actually, i wouldn't trust what a breed club has to say...very often, you have to read in between the lines to get the truth.

"spirited" and "self-willed" and "very resistant to fatigue" sound good, and can be good...but these words also send possible warning signals for my tastes.

if they are ok with strangers who come to the house, but not exceptional, they probably wouldn't mention it.

these dogs might be as great as you say...but i know the sources i trust more than others.

Yeah, cuz like a breed club would know anything about the breed they specialize in...

Originally Posted by JDub

I think you just made B-Line's point about Doodles... you wont always get the desired effects.

That said, sorry to hear about your genetically flawed coat.

Hey now, I'm not genetically flawed...most people of my heritage have dark brown or black and straight hair...I fit the breed standard

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by JDub

But you'll trust some random person who writes a book?

Didnt Charlie Manson write a book once??

you probably read his book.

but me, i'm more picky.

a well-reviewed book by an expert is more trusted by me than a bunch of dopes on a forum.

especially if i compare a few.

[Laurelin]

All breed books generally are not too good. They can't possibly know the breed like the people that write up the things for breed clubs who not only live with the breed but know hundreds of individuals within a breed.

[JDub]

Originally Posted by dog-man

you probably read his book.

but me, i'm more picky.

a well-reviewed book by an expert is more trusted by me than a bunch of dopes on a forum.

especially if i compare a few.

pssst....b-line, ACampbell, I think he's talking about you guys.

Seriously though...what makes the guy an expert? Is it that he has spent a lot of time around the breed that he writes about? Is he a breeder? Has he worked shows to see the standards, the norms, etc? I'm guessing these same people are the ones that run the national clubs. Other than spending a LOT of time with a dog, what else would make one an "expert"??

[Curbside Prophet]

If it's a comparative psychologist, there's the first problem with these "intelligence" lists. He may call himself an expert, I call him bold. no biologist would attempt what a comparative psychologist attempts with intelligence tests. It's a stupid premise.