[dog-man]

some people specialize in trying to "create" the most beautiful dogs...i am often amazed at the results.

some specialize in field trials, obedience trials, dancing, seeing eye or hearing ear work, etc.

these trainers get results that are outstanding...beyond the possibilities imagined by us regular folk.

they research the best breeds and the best training techniques for the desired result.

but if i come on, and say that i have spent my time researching articles on how to develop a deeper emotional level from my pooch, somehow that is ridiculous.

not just because i am a relative newbie...i think many people here just don't think it possible to go to levels way beyond what they are used to.

if i focused my reading to glean these ideas from experts...it is not inconcievable that it could have occurred.

the only way to "prove" it is for you to come live with me, and spend time with Oinest.

if anyone is interested, i'll ask my wife if she would mind.

[Love's_Sophie]

A little bit confused here...What exactly is the point of this post? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get what you are trying to begin talking about...I think you are disputing that people here don't understand the concept of building a real, and deep relationship with their dogs; which, I personally think you are a 'little' off base here...Everything I do with my dog is surrounded around trying to understand her better, and thus be able to build a stronger bond, and working relationship.

[Curbside Prophet]

Send over the limo, I'm sure Oinest and I would make great pals.

[Dakota Spirit]

I do not think anyone sees the idea as developing a deeper bond as ridicules. If you are speaking of the other thread this topic came up on - people mainly took issue with the fact that you often make it sound as if you are the only one trying and achieving this. Upon mention of similar traits in other dogs you most always have a reason why Oinest STILL stands out above that dog or shares some human quality that no other dog has.

Each and every dog is an individual, to be sure - but this is a DOG forum. You can be just as sure of the that we all are developing and have deep emotional bonds with our pets.

[dog-man]

forget me...forget oinest.

DO YOU THINK IT POSSIBLE FOR DOG TRAINERS EVENTUALLY TO TAKE DOGS TO A TOTALLY NEW LEVEL THAN WHAT EVEN THE BEST DOG OWNERS HAVE COME TO KNOW?

just like they have taken dogs to incredible levels in beauty, obedience, etc...

they would take them to a completely new level.

or do you think the potential is by definition limited to what the better owners more or less experience now.

personally, i think dogs like border collies, poodles, and others are already in a league of their own.
and i think there is more to discover.

[borzoimom]

I am sorry dogman but I do not understand your post. Each one of us has a deep bond with our pets. When Hottie passed away, a part of me went with him. I am rather shocked that you think others can feel if even more with their pets. A " Bond" is subjective and of a personal nature- and yet again- we are back to a esoteric thread of perception.
I am fighthing the urge to say more than I have.. I am done here on this thread.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by dog-man

DO YOU THINK IT POSSIBLE FOR DOG TRAINERS EVENTUALLY TO TAKE DOGS TO A TOTALLY NEW LEVEL THAN WHAT EVEN THE BEST DOG OWNERS HAVE COME TO KNOW?

Certainly, but only in a way that keeps the human, human, and the dog, dog. Not the dog, human, or visa versa.

[Inga]

I think anything is possible. People said that man would never walk on the moon and here we are. Dog of new can do more then dogs of old (in some cases) because of selective breeding. So, is it possible to learn more and bond closer to a dog then what is done on average now. Sure. I suspect anyone willing to make the commitment to do just that can achieve success to some degree. Good luck trying. Proving it might be the hardest part.

[Dakota Spirit]

Originally Posted by dog-man

DO YOU THINK IT POSSIBLE FOR DOG TRAINERS EVENTUALLY TO TAKE DOGS TO A TOTALLY NEW LEVEL THAN WHAT EVEN THE BEST DOG OWNERS HAVE COME TO KNOW?

As I believe borzoi mentioned, bonds and these 'levels' are very very subjective. It's hard to imagine having a deeper bond then some people her have with their animals. There are so many factors in all this - I simply do not see how you can look at two people and think along the lines of "Well, that person's bond is on a completely different level." It's not that cut and dry in my mind, there is a lot of gray area.

ETA: I just wanted to add - how would you even begin to measure one's bond? Training? The way the dog acts? Sometimes deep bonds are far beyond the depths of what the eye can see.

[Love's_Sophie]

Yes...however, it really is an individual journey; a trainer can establish a really good bond with the dogs he is working with, but that doesn't mean it will transfer over to the actual dog-owner bond...we are each on our own journey's with our dogs.

I'm not sure if we will ever fully know the dogs we own; they aren't human, so they can't tell us what we really need to know to truly understand EVERYTHING about them. I guess in someways this is a good thing...not sure I would want pets that could talk back...it'd be like having a bunch of teenagers in the house that refuse to go to work, and never leave home!!!

I do think our bond with our animals is limited by how much we do or don't try to understand their natural nature, and work with them while using that understanding.

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Certainly, but only in a way that keeps the human, human, and the dog, dog. Not the dog, human, or visa versa.

Exactly!!! No matter how much we 'understand' canines, we MUST not treat them as if they are human...they aren't, they are dogs, and we are the humans; to expect a dog to be anything less or more than a dog, is to set oneself up for a whole lot of disappointment!! And as BM stated, relationships are subjective...everyone will be different!

[the mama]

dog-man... to clarify for me...

are you talking about developing an empathic, or even telepathic, connection with your dog? (or, anyone with their dog)?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your question.

[jesirose]

Originally Posted by dog-man

but if i come on, and say that i have spent my time researching articles on how to develop a deeper emotional level from my pooch, somehow that is ridiculous.

Where did you say that? What you said was that Oinest was like Mr. Ed. What you said was that you have a special bond with him and he is human like. You never said anything about actually following some sort of researched plan to develop that.

You also refuse to accept the possibility that most of us have that same bond with our dogs, and that you and oinest are not the pioneers of the new dog world. You simply insist that you are right and you and your dog are the best. You are not considering any of the possibilities given in the other thread for your feelings.

[Curbside Prophet]

Originally Posted by Love's_Sophie

Exactly!!! No matter how much we 'understand' canines, we MUST not treat them as if they are human...they aren't, they are dogs, and we are the humans; to expect a dog to be anything less or more than a dog, is to set oneself up for a whole lot of disappointment!!

Not to speak for dog-man, but I believe he's wondering about that which can't be readily understood. IMO, we lower humans to compare them to dogs, the same should be said to compare dogs to humans. If we feel or see something in the dog we can only explain by comparing them to humans, we should chalk that up to the limits of our minds, but not to the limits of the dog's being. There are things all our dogs do to make us go "WOW!", and "WOW!" is probably the best way to explain.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by jesirose

Where did you say that? What you said was that Oinest was like Mr. Ed. What you said was that you have a special bond with him and he is human like. You never said anything about actually following some sort of researched plan to develop that.

i said it on the first page of the Mr. Ed thread, as well in many other places. here is the quote"

it might have something to do with the fact, that when i researched breeds and info on raising dogs, i was consciously looking to maximize this effect.
plus, i think i got lucky.

[jesirose]

Originally Posted by dog-man

i said it on the first page of the Mr. Ed thread, as well in many other places. here is the quote"

it might have something to do with the fact, that when i researched breeds and info on raising dogs, i was consciously looking to maximize this effect.
plus, i think i got lucky.

And the rest of my comments....?

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by jesirose

You also refuse to accept the possibility that most of us have that same bond with our dogs, and that you and oinest are not the pioneers of the new dog world.

if you read many of my posts, you would know that this is not so.

however, i think this sort of depth of character is not such a simple matter...i think it somewhat rare...although i think the members of a forum such as this would likely have a much higher percentage than the general population.

i see much focus on emphasizing the beauty, obedience or ability to run courses very fast as some sort of sign of superiority...and winners of these ribbons are among the dogs fit to breed.

i am more interested in developing dogs in less quantitative but nevertheless important ways.

[jesirose]

Originally Posted by dog-man

if you read many of my posts, you would that this is not so.

however, i think this sort of depth of character is not such a simple matter...i think it someaht rare...although i think the members of a forum such as this would likely have a much higher percentage than the general population.

i see much focus on emphasising the beauty, obedience or ability to run courses very fast as some sort of sign of superiority...and winners of these ribbons are among the dogs fit to breed.

i am more interested in developing dogs in less quantitative but nevertheless important ways.

I have read many of your posts, definately too many. Good luck developing your special new dogs.

[Canadian Dog]

Originally Posted by dog-man

i said it on the first page of the Mr. Ed thread, as well in many other places. here is the quote"

it might have something to do with the fact, that when i researched breeds and info on raising dogs, i was consciously looking to maximize this effect.
plus, i think i got lucky.

What have you done - explain. Since you got your dog what steps have you taken to maximize this effect?

[katthevamp]

Even though you are no longer coming of as bad as you were, you've developed a bad rep. So, anything you say will be viewed with the bias of "Hey, this dude's a jerk. Nothing he says must be right." That's why people dispute anything you say.

[dog-man]

Originally Posted by the mama

dog-man... to clarify for me...

are you talking about developing an empathic, or even telepathic, connection with your dog? (or, anyone with their dog)?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your question.

i am talking about a focus on breeds that might have more potential.

i am talking about studying the research of experts that emphasize the development of the canine personality, rather than striving for more and more advanced tricks.

Originally Posted by katthevamp

Even though you are no longer coming of as bad as you were, you've developed a bad rep. So, anything you say will be viewed with the bias of "Hey, this dude's a jerk. Nothing he says must be right." That's why people dispute anything you say.

the pet name my brother and i have for each other is "Jerk".