Puppy Mills and Pet Stores

Snowshoe · 12-03-2006, 01:56 AM

I thought that maybe it would be a good idea to open up a discussion on this hot topic.

It occured to me that many new puppy buyers may not even really know what a puppy mill is, or how they are connected to brokers and pet stores, and why no one should ever buy a dog online.

So, I think I'll start by asking everyone some general questions:

1) What do you think a puppy mill is?

2) Where do pet stores get their puppies?

3) What is a broker?

I think that's enough for now! I'm sure that will get the discussion going.

petluver · 12-03-2006, 08:50 AM

Puppy Mills! Ughhhhhh!!!!!!! I bet a lot of people don't know much about them. I don't know as much as some do, but I have read, and seen what happens to at them! It is horrible! Please, if anyone has, or knows of someone that needs to place animals. Don't say FREE. I have read that Puppy Mills look for people that are doing that. To use them for experimentation in labs. We all need more education on this subject! Nan

Keno's Mom · 12-03-2006, 09:14 AM

I don't know the detailed info, but a puppy mill is one where the person(s) are breeding dogs for sale to large chain stores/distributors, etc. These dog's only purpose is to breed till they die and produce as much as they can. Females are bred at EVERY heat no matter what shape they are in or how many pups they have.

The pups are pulled from mom/siblings younger then normal as you have to ship out those "cute" puppies so people will buy them before they get too old. The dogs are kept in tiny cages, no exercise, no vet care, minimum and cheap food (cause you have a LOT of dogs to feed), no health certificates, no shots, no tests, etc.

A puppy mill will have many breeds - popular ones, "designer" dogs, - not just a few breeds. Some puppy mills debark the dogs so they don't have to listen to the barking/howling, etc.

I think the broker part is the middle man who gets the puppies cheap from the mills and in turn supplys the pets shops with whatever they ask for. The pet shop then cleans up the puppy, puts it in the window and charges you hundreds of dollars for a VERY poor quality/sick puppy. Sure a lot of them "guarentee" replacement if your dog dies; they have plenty more they can get.

Also, very important is the "papers" on these puppies. Since AKC cracked down on puppy mills and requires a lot more to register pups, they (the mills) started going to outside registries - such as CKC (Continental Kennel Club), ACC (American Canine Club), and a lot of others - these are the clubs that sprang up for the mills and the backyard breeders who are almost as bad as the mills - except on a smaller scale.

Be sure to check what CKC stands for if you see it on a pup. Canadian Kennel Club (CKC) is the equilivant of AKC and is a very legit association. Ask the clerk exactly what registry it is - do not say "is it Canadian Kennel Club". Ask to see the papers to be sure.

But the best thing to do is NEVER buy the puppy from a pet shop in the first place. If we boycott there, it helps to shut down mills/byb's as they don't have anyone buying. And if you buy from a breeder, be sure to check out health, pedigrees, and how their dogs are taken care of.

BTW puppy mills/bybs will not have "champions" in their pedigrees - if they do, more then likely the papers are fake.

blackrose · 12-03-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

1) What do you think a puppy mill is?

A puppy mill is a super-de-duper large scale horrible back yard breeder. They have lots of dogs, God knows how many breeds, and they breed to make money. Their dogs are kept in awful conditons, often living in their own waste. They don't health test their dogs, heck, they don't even give their dogs their needed shots. The females are bred and bred and bred with every heat and when they can't breed anymore, they kill them. The dogs are kept in cramped condition, often not even able to turn around without bumping into another dog. The puppies are taken away from the mother way too young so the breeders (I use the term loosely) can make money and make way for more puppies.

Quote:

According to the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (Ontario SPCA), the term "puppy mill" describes a breeding operation in which dogs are repeatedly bred for financial gain and are kept in substandard conditions. Puppy mill dogs are often confined to small cages for their entire lives and commonly suffer from various infections and parasites. A puppy mill cannot meet the needs of a dog and is a form of cruelty.

These substandard conditions and a non-scientific approach to breeding, often leads to chronic health and behavioral problems in the puppies. These problems can result in high vet bills and emotional stress for the dogs' owners - ie. possibly you.

They sell primarily to retail pet shops (usually via a broker), but occasionally sells directly to individual consumers. Dogs are bred solely for profit, with no concern for their physical health or psychological well-being - most are disease-ridden; all are force-bred continuously. Often uses "Kennels" or "Farms" in its business name. Dogs' and puppies' are usually in squalid living conditions are off-limits to the public.

And since pictures are worth a thousand words....

Quote:

2) Where do pet stores get their puppies?

Petstores and recieve their puppies from lots of different places. Some may purchase them from puppy mills. The Mill sells them for 50 bucks a dog to the petstore, then the petstore sells them to unaware buyers for 1,000$.
They can also get them from local BYBs. The breeders sell the puppy to the petstore, they get a profit and don't have to deal with selling them themselves, and then the petstore sells them off.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCE does a responsible breeder place his or her dog in a petstore. You ask any responsible breeder if they would, the answer is a firm NO.

Quote:

3) What is a broker?

I'm not quite sure what this is, but what comes to mind when I here the word is the middle man between the puppymill and you. He'll be the guy who comes to your house with a van full of puppies and hands the pup off to you for a thousand dollars. Not quite sure if that is what it is, but that comes to mind. lol

Quote:

BTW puppy mills/bybs will not have "champions" in their pedigrees - if they do, more then likely the papers are fake.

I have to disagree....a BYB might have one or two champions in their dogs' pedigree. They'll proudly point those two out, "Look at ol' Sam there. He's a champion." But one or two champions from great great grandparents aren't going to affect the dog enough to stop him from being a poorly bred dog.

tirluc · 12-03-2006, 03:44 PM

another thing you can be sure of is that the "papers" you recieve w/ a puppy mill puppy are from a dog that was probably around 2 yrs prior....they simply "recycle" papers if they don't get them w/ the breeding dog to begin w/.....and a lot of times the pups aren't even purebred.....

DogAdvocat · 12-03-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowshoe

1) What do you think a puppy mill is?

2) Where do pet stores get their puppies?

3) What is a broker?

1. The term "puppymill" is usually used to describe the worst of commercial breeders. Commercial breeders mostly sell wholesale to brokers or pet shops and they have multiple breeds. In order to make the business profitable, they cut corners wherever possible, like on health care, food, and housing in order to produce as many litters as possible. There is no concern about things like socialization - they see dogs as commodities, not personalities. The term "milling" means production en-masse, so puppymilling is really just mass production of puppies for a profit.

2. Pet stores get their puppies from breeders who don't care where the puppies go, and likely didn't care much about what went into producing a healthy, well-socialized puppy. No reputable breeder would sell to or through a pet store because they can't control where the puppy is going and can't follow the health of that puppy. If a puppy developed a health problem later, the breeder wouldn't be able to use that knowledge to make future decisions on the dogs they were breeding. Also, reputable breeders, like rescue, act as a safety net for the lifetime of the dog, and would be there if the dog became orphaned for whatever reason.

3. A broker is a middleman who receives puppies from commercial breeders and houses them until they can be transferred or sold to pet shops. It's not unusual for brokers to temporarily house hundreds of puppies, and as some go out (or die), others come in waiting for their trip to the pet shop. The disease factor is of concern. Pups coming from many mills, being housed together, and then shipped again to pet shops not only exposes them to disease from other breeders dogs, but also increases the chances of disease because of the high stress factor.

And though you didn't ask, everytime a puppy is bought from a pet shop, it frees up a cage which then has to be filled by that poor, over-bred, suffering, puppymill mama.

Callie15 · 12-03-2006, 09:24 PM

Everything you need to know about puppymills is on
www.millbusters.com

Snowshoe · 12-04-2006, 08:48 PM

Here is what I think:

Puppymillers are large, multi-breed producing, dog factories. Much like any other animal business, they cut corners everywhere.

AND THEY DON'T CARE IF THE PUPPY YOU ARE SOLD IS SICK, CRIPPLED, BLIND, DEAF, DEFORMED, WORMY, AND COVERED IN ITS OWN FECAL MATTER.

To them, your puppy is $250 dollars. That's it. That's all.

A broker is sometimes the middleman between petstores and puppy mills. Often, the more sickly puppys that won't sell in petstore are sold online. They often house hundreds of dogs at a time, in between transports to pet stores, or new owners.

Petstores buy most of their dogs from brokers. They haggle on prices, then then a live shipment is made. After all, they get discounts if they use one broker exclusively, and buy in bulk.

That's right! Much like you were a member and went to Sam's Club and bought 30 roles of toilet paper.

Basically, the puppy only costs $50 or $60 for the pet store. Sometimes, they MAY be as much as $200 (like for an English Bulldog puppy).

Sometimes, puppies die in transit, and the pet store has to dispose of them.

After it becomes clear which pups will make it and which ones won't, they bathe them, groom them, and put them behind glass for display. Then, it's rush rush rush to get those puppies out of the store.

1) they know that after they're 8 weeks old, they're "too old" and no one will want them.

2) they know they're sick, and the sooner they can get those puppies in to homes, the better. After all, they don't want to pay for vet care, and they certainly don't want sick puppies getting the "healthy" puppies sick.

3) they want to keep the broker happy and buy buy buy so they get those discount prices.

What kind of life is that for any thing? Having to sit behind glass, occasionally getting played with, having to sit in your own poop all night until the early shift comes in an cleans it up?

I don't know why anyone supports pet stores that sells puppies and kittens.

poofywoof · 12-05-2006, 10:54 AM

Not all puppy mills are Large-scale, Mass quantity puppy producers. A breeder with only 10-15 dogs could also be a puppy mill. The difference is the intent to breed the dogs for the sole purpose of profit, the minimal care given to the dogs/puppies and the lack of human contact, socialization, poor living conditions and lack of veterinary care.

DogAdvocat · 12-05-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poofywoof

Not all puppy mills are Large-scale, Mass quantity puppy producers. A breeder with only 10-15 dogs could also be a puppy mill. The difference is the intent to breed the dogs for the sole purpose of profit, the minimal care given to the dogs/puppies and the lack of human contact, socialization, poor living conditions and lack of veterinary care.

That could describe a backyard breeder (BYB) too. I suppose there is a fine line between the two.

blackrose · 12-05-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogAdvocat

That could describe a backyard breeder (BYB) too. I suppose there is a fine line between the two.

That is why I said, "A puppy mill is a super-de-duper large scale horrible back yard breeder." When you think of a BYB, you think of maybe around two-six dogs. They are also genrally part of the persons family. Puppy mill dogs aren't in any way part of a family and their are more dogs. How much more just depends. If someone can take care of twelve dogs, let him have twelve dogs. If someone else can't take care of one dog....then they shouldn't have one dog.