[guitarpicker226]

Ok... here goes. I have had my dog since she was 5 weeks old and now she is 8 months. This is my first dog and I can not begin to explain how much I love this dog. I am a little obsessive. She is a mix between Golden Retriever and Yellow lab. I am now realizing that I have gone about this dog the wrong way since day one. I have tried to mold this dog into the "perfect dog" and I now know you can not do this. You have to let the dog do what he/she wants to do with your guidence. I was always getting on to her telling her no and making her do things. I was not positive at all. I have also repremanded her physically but not extensive. When she would potty in the house I would rub her nose in her mess and spank her. When she would not come I would go and get her by the scruff of the neck and drag her in while she was crying. I really do not know why I did this. I believe out of frustration. Now she totally ignores me, will not let me pet her, or look me in the eyes, or play with me. She seems like she does not want anything to do with me. In the house, when I try to initate play she just runs around in circles biting at her tail then she will stop or she will go and start biting on something. I will call her again and she will proceed to do it again. What is this behavior? When I am outside she will run out of the yard and Ill go to call her but she will ignore me still running off. Somtimes she will come to me but ten feet out she will dart off away from me. Or she will be laying down outside and Ill call her, she will not come, Ill go over to her and she will dart away and lay somewhere else. What is she doing? I am the one feeding her and when I yell at her real harshley she will obey but she sulks. I want her to do something not because I tell her but I want her to do it. I have two roomates and she seems to love them to death. Whenever she sees them she goes over and wags her tail and gets excited and wants to petted and she looks like a real obediant dog. She never does that to me when I have been gone and she first sees me. This has almost made me cry I am so upset at this. It seems as if she is not my dog and she does not love me the same way I love her. I was outside and I was trying to call her but she ignored me to the point she went out into the road and almost got hit by a car. I eventually got her. I have enrolled her in an obedience class. Will she ever change? Or is the obedience class going to do anything? Will she ever be my dog? This is really hurting me and I do not know what to do. Any info is much appreiciated. Thank you.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by guitarpicker226

What is this behavior? When I am outside she will run out of the yard and Ill go to call her but she will ignore me still running off. Somtimes she will come to me but ten feet out she will dart off away from me. Or she will be laying down outside and Ill call her, she will not come, Ill go over to her and she will dart away and lay somewhere else. What is she doing? I am the one feeding her and when I yell at her real harshley she will obey but she sulks. I want her to do something not because I tell her but I want her to do it. I have two roomates and she seems to love them to death. Whenever she sees them she goes over and wags her tail and gets excited and wants to petted and she looks like a real obediant dog. She never does that to me when I have been gone and she first sees me. This has almost made me cry I am so upset at this. It seems as if she is not my dog and she does not love me the same way I love her. I was outside and I was trying to call her but she ignored me to the point she went out into the road and almost got hit by a car. I eventually got her. I have enrolled her in an obedience class. Will she ever change? Or is the obedience class going to do anything? Will she ever be my dog? This is really hurting me and I do not know what to do. Any info is much appreiciated. Thank you.

Well I hate to say this but you really damaged your relationship with your puppy by training her the way you did.....

Think about it from her perspective and you probably wouldn't come to you either.....

hitting your dog, rubbing her face in her pee, yelling and screaming and physical force do not make for a good relationship with your dog.... but at least you realize this..... she loves your roomates because they never did this to her.... they have become her buddies and you are like the enforcer.... you are going to have some hard work ahead of you to repair the relationship.....

I think that behavior you are seeing is nerves..... she wants to come with you but is afraid of you at the same time..... she doesn't know what you want and doesn't want to make a mistake and be in trouble especially considering the physical punishments that have been used in the past.....

she won't make eye contact and is ignoring you because she is upset and or afraid.... and to be honest I don't blame her .... do you????

I dont want to make you feel bad but you have to understand where she is coming from.... this is not a bad dog.... she is a scared and confused dog..... because she is a dog she loves you...but she is also afraid...... but I think you know that ......

I would enter her in an obedience class but I would make darned sure that class is absolutely totally 100% positive..... I wouldn't go anywhere that used a choke chain or any kind of punishment.... I would probably put her in a class that uses a clicker.... she needs to learn that ONLY good things happen when she is around you and that is going to take some time for her to learn..... if you want her to do stuff that you ask because she wants to then a clicker class is what you want.....

The obedience class will be a great bonding experience for the both of you.... and you will learn how dogs learn and how to channel your frustration

the other thing is that you don't have to let your dog run rampant and do what she wants but you have to learn how to teach your dog.... not punish but teach.... and a clicker class will do that..... and then start working on come when called and treats.... lots of treats and pets and fun time..... this doesn't mean you can't say no.... it just means that it has to be more good time than bad time and you have to set your puppy up for success.....

I mean you are in a bad age anyway.... adolescence can be tough.... but you also have some making up with your dog to do.....

S

[Sugar Daddy Otis]

Shalva gave you some great advice!!
I give you credit for coming forward and admitting what you have done in the past and that you are willing to start over and make things right. Good luck-you have a long hard road ahead-but when you are done it will be SO worth it!

[FilleBelle]

How about some books? Start reading up on dog ownership, behavior, and training. Paul Owen's The Dog Whisperer is a good one. Anything by the Monks of New Skete or Patricia McConnell is interesting. I'm sure other people will come up with other recommendations.

Also, let your dog warm up to you at her own pace. Coming on too strong with constant invitations to play or effusive greetings are just going to freak her out more. Be warm, kind, and loving, but find another hobby so that you're not obsessing about your dog.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

How about some books? Start reading up on dog ownership, behavior, and training. Paul Owen's The Dog Whisperer is a good one. Anything by the Monks of New Skete or Patricia McConnell is interesting. I'm sure other people will come up with other recommendations.

Also, let your dog warm up to you at her own pace. Coming on too strong with constant invitations to play or effusive greetings are just going to freak her out more. Be warm, kind, and loving, but find another hobby so that you're not obsessing about your dog.

the problem with the monks books are that in the first book they discuss an alpha roll.....and with a fearful dog I would NEVER EVER do that.....

If I were goign to recommend a book
I would say

How Dogs Learn
Culture Clash
And Bones would rain from the sky
and anything by Tuurid Rugaas

I woudln't recommend a training book as this dog and owner need to bond more than anything......

I would recommend books that will help the OP learn how his dog learns and views the world and maybe that will help with the bonding.....
s

[FilleBelle]

This is OT, but I don't think the Monks have anything about alpha rolls in their books anymore. I'd have to check ALL of them to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure it's been taken out of their new editions.

[Shalva]

Originally Posted by FilleBelle

This is OT, but I don't think the Monks have anything about alpha rolls in their books anymore. I'd have to check ALL of them to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure it's been taken out of their new editions.

I think it is the first one that had it in there ..... my copy is fairly old and I remember an interview where they said that they wished they had never included it.... perhaps it was taken out of future editions of the book but I know it is in the one that I have ..... but my copy is i think 7 or 8 years old now.....

[007Dogs]

The first thing you need to do is go get a nice steak and cook it. Cut it into small pieces and put them in your pocket. Then go sit on the floor and entise the dog to come to your lap. Then you pet and kiss this dog and tell the dog how sorry you are and ask the dog to forgive you. And don't think they don't understand, because they do. And unlike humans, dogs have a much more forgiving heart. And then go to your class and try to learn how to regain your dogs confidence, trust and love in you with positive reinforcement.

Just think when you were a baby if you parents had stuffed your dirty diapers in your face to potty train you. Or when you ignored there demands they drug you crying across the floor. I am certain, you would have made every attempt to run away from them and hide or leave home as soon as you could. Dogs don't feel any different. They want love and guidance just like humans.

Good Luck and we hope to here positive updates.

[Love's_Sophie]

It sounds like you just need to learn how to be relational with your dog.

You can start by hand feeding her. Giving her treats for no reason, other than you just feel like giving her a treat. Start buying tasty bones for her, and give her a bone while you are chilling on the couch. Keep a leash on her all the time, so you can gently coax her to you JUST to give her scratches and loving! You need to rebuild her trust before she is going to really want to be with you again...

The reason she loves your roommates is because they don't expect anything out of her; not that this is entirely perfect either, because our dogs need to still leadership, not just a 'friendly face'...

However, as you have found, what you are doing is making your dog desire other people and things, more than she desires you...a bad thing.

You need to go back to square one, and learn how to be your dog's friend, not just her 'authoritarian'.

IMO an obedience class would be a good place to start, especially if you can get a trainer who is one on one with you. Definitely talk to the trainer about what you really want to acheive, and if necessary set up one on one sessions so you can work on those goals even more.

[Priss and Pedro's Mama]

I will echo everyone else's suggestions and say you've got to earn her trust and "enjoyment" of you back. Set her up to succeed. Take a trip to Petsmart, load up on yummy treats (tiny ones or ones that squish easily) and a few clickers. *yes ya'll I'm a clicker convert* Charge the clicker one evening by doing the "click treat" bit for about 10 minutes. Really reinforce that the clicker is a happy thing. Don't ask a thing of her except that she hang out near you and eat the treats. Once you have the clicker charged you can click for anything you want to encourage. She comes to you for loving, click/treat or click/pet. She makes eye contact, click/treat. Yeah, she will start to view you as a walking treat dispenser, but right now that is a good thing. Once she's gotten the idea that the clicker and you are pretty fun, then start working on sit/down/come stuff. Right now you have to focus on being her person, the light of her life, the giver of happy things. Dogs are very resilient and she is young. Your relationship with her is not damaged beyond repair.

[LMH]

I am so glad you have come to this realization and that you want to do something about it. I also made the mistake of doing that rubbing in the poop a couple of times. That's the way my stepdad did it. But only after a couple of times I realized the error of this. As well as the calling your dog just to yell at him. Now I never ever call my dog to punish him. Even if he is doing something so bad , I call him and by the time he gets here I am just so happy he came that I always greet him with a hug and praise. So i think your dog will learn ,IF you start now only calling him to hug and praise him ,that you are his loving buddy. I really wish I would have read this book when my dog was a puppy-The Loved Dog by Tamar Gellar. It is such a good positive enforcement book. I balanced that out by also reading the Pack leader book by Cesar Milan. I don't use everything of both, I just see what works best for my dog. Training class will help a lot in re-establishing a good bond with him as long as like Shalva says it is a good positive training class. My sisters dog was the same way with her. she feels guilty to this day that she used a lot of negative enforcement with him and she said he does not like to be pet by her and often acts aloof to her. So take care of it now, i'm sure your pup will come around.

[guitarpicker226]

You said to call her and hug her but she will not let me touch her. Do you think she will ever let me pet her? She is young right? So she will grow out of this if I change my training habits?

[digits mama]

First take you expectations down a notch or 2. Dont have a head full of expectations or you are bound to fail. Learn to love your dog. Her behavior is because you have expected entirely too much from her. It overwhelmed you and instead turned to negative reinforcement. You have to make her world full of rainbows and sunshine and things will go more smoothly. Plus what everyone said above me. But she is a dog...She isnt wired to know anything she hasnt been taught. She will totally shut down if she is rough housed or yelled at. Try to smile a little more at her antics and reassure her that all the bad stuff is over and in the past. Firm no, rather than a nose full of pee works wonders. Good luck

[LMH]

Originally Posted by guitarpicker226

You said to call her and hug her but she will not let me touch her. Do you think she will ever let me pet her? She is young right? So she will grow out of this if I change my training habits?

Okay if she won't come when called, then take advantage of anthing she does on her own. If she is walking in your general direction use your happy voice and say come, have some toys around, if she goes to the toys that you are holding tell her -good come, good come and pet her. Do this whenever she is walking towards you or in your general direction. But do give her time to build up trust with you again. I think you will be able to establish trust with her if you start now and like digits wrote don't except too much from her. Let her feel you out and come to you on her terms. She does need to know that your hands mean a good outcome and not a pull on the scruff. So entice her with really good treats and toys and no yelling. Remeber she is like a baby. They only grow to reach the maturity of a 3 year old and I don't think you would treat a baby like that. Not that she shouldn't be respected as a dog but the methods shouldn't be harsh.

[petstar]

Originally Posted by guitarpicker226

You said to call her and hug her but she will not let me touch her. Do you think she will ever let me pet her? She is young right? So she will grow out of this if I change my training habits?

Unfortunately this isn't an issue for her to grow out of...She needs to learn to trust you. You've broken her trust and established yourself as something to fear and avoid.

I think the trust can be built and some of this damage can be undone but you may expect that she will have some degree of emotional scarring from what is essentially abuse. I read that she has or has had some problems with submissive urination and what you perceived as "stubbornness". She sounds very scared and threatened. I understand you made a mistake and I applaud you for seeking help and admitting your faults. You have to immediately break this cycle before irreparable harm is done. Please begin with reading, talking to trainers and knowledgeable dog experts. I suggest you seek a behaviorist to work on the issues that you you've caused.

She sounds like a very sweet, intelligent dog. She avoids eye contact with you because she lacks self confidence. She doesn't "obey" you because you have not proven yourself a worthy and reliable leader. You have abused and threatened her and she is reacting in protection of herself.

I hope that you continue to work on this with your puppy. She deserves to be treated with love, respect and patience.

[Shalva]

what I want you to do is go in the mirror and make the happiest face you can and then I want you to practice your most idiotic.... loooky schnookums baby idiot voice.....

then when your dog is near you.... when it is just you and her.... DONT call her.... just kneel down on the floor.... don't look at her..... have that steak that OO7 recommended or something equally as wonderful (rotisserie chicken works well) and toss her a piece of chicken..... all the while in a quiet but using the idiot happy voice.... telling her what a good girl she is ......

she can relearn that you are a good guy..... BUT IF YOU BECOME FRUSTRATED EVEN ONCE you may as well pack it in ....... she might not come to you.... but start with just tossing her a treat.... again don't look at her.... and kneel on the floor..... and use that voice and if you sense she is feeling more secure.... toss the treat a little closer and over time a little closer.....

It is goign to be your job to set your dog up for success..... because if you are really interested in repairing this relationship you will not put yourself or her in the position of you having to be a disciplinarian..... everything needs to be flowers and happy and butterflies for quite a while.....

I would suggest reading Tuurid Rugas as she will be excellent to teach you how to read your dogs signals and tell you when your dog is stressed..... because if you can read those then you can work better with your dog....

this is not about her growing out of this..... this is not about the dog..... she is fine..... it is about YOU controlling your emotions and frustrations and repairing a relationship that YOU damaged not her.... She is the dog.... when you brought her home she trusted you..... and now she doesn't and there is a reason for that.... its not about her growing out of this.....

Yes she is young..... so your odds of fixing this are better..... yes dogs are more forgiving than people .... so your odds of fixing this are better .....

but this is NOT a developemental stage.... this is in direct relationship to how you treated her..... and its up to you to fix it.

s

[Elana55]

Can't disagree with anythingherre. Read those books Shalva suggested.. you will learn SOOO much.

You can get a quick start on the clicker thing and positive reinforcement at:
www.clickertraining.com

No more yelling. No more hitting. No more of any of that.

She darts away when you get near here because she is terrified of you, and you made her that way.

Now you have a HUGE job to unmake that. Let us know how you progress.

Mistakes are made and can be corrected. You have taken a huge first step in recognizing your mistake. It will only remain a mistake if it goes uncorrected.

[MushPuppies]

There are necessary developmental stages for puppies. If you got your pup at 5 weeks, then these social skills may not be possible. I would definitely check into a behaviorist or someone else that is qualified to understand the emotional stunting your puppy may be trying to deal with.

From "Developmental Stages Of Puppy Behavior": Although feeding time is important, it's also vital to include petting, talking and playing in order to help your pupy build good "people-skills". Well-socialized mothers are more likely to have well-socialized puppies. Puppies "feed" off of their mothers' calm or fearful attitude toward people.
Puppies are usually weaned at six or seven weeks, but are still learning important skills as their mother gradually leaves them more and more. Ideally, puppies should stay with their littermates (or other role-model dog) for at least 12 weeks.
Puppies separated from their littermates too early often don't develop appropriate "social skills", such as learning how to send and receive signals, what an "inhibited bite" means, how far to go in play wrestleing and so forth. Play is important to help puppies increase their physical coordination, social skills and learning limits. Interacting with their mother and littermates helps them learn "how to be a dog" and is also a way to explore ranking ("who's in charge").
Skills not acquired during the first eight weeks may be lost forever. While these stages are important and fairly consistent, a dog's mind remains receptive to new experiences and lessons well beyond puppy-hood. Most dogs are still puppies, in mind and body, throught the first two years.
General Guidelines: 0-2 weeks= Neonatal; 2-12 weeks=Transitional (* Most influenced by their mother and littermates, * Eyes open, teeth erupt, hearing and smell developing, *Begininning to stand, walk a little, wag, bark, *By four or five weeks, sight is well developed); 3-12 weeks=Socializatrion (*During this period, puppies need opportunitties to meet other dogs and people, *By four to six weeks they're most influenced by their littermates and are learning about being a dog.)

[Dog5]

Originally Posted by 007Dogs

The first thing you need to do is go get a nice steak and cook it. Cut it into small pieces and put them in your pocket. Then go sit on the floor and entise the dog to come to your lap. Then you pet and kiss this dog and tell the dog how sorry you are and ask the dog to forgive you. And don't think they don't understand, because they do. And unlike humans, dogs have a much more forgiving heart. And then go to your class and try to learn how to regain your dogs confidence, trust and love in you with positive reinforcement.

Just think when you were a baby if you parents had stuffed your dirty diapers in your face to potty train you. Or when you ignored there demands they drug you crying across the floor. I am certain, you would have made every attempt to run away from them and hide or leave home as soon as you could. Dogs don't feel any different. They want love and guidance just like humans.

Good Luck and we hope to here positive updates.

This is such a good idea...spoil her for a little while before you start the "retraining."