Biting Bichon What to do?

peace36 · 07-03-2007, 10:44 PM

I wanted to post some information about what is going on with a dog I am pet sitting to see if any one has a better answer than putting the dog to sleep because in a couple of days that was the decision made but if I can offer them better advice I would love to hear some.

The dog is a 2 yr old Bichon Frise bought from a backyard breeder. In its 2 yrs it has gone after more than 20 people and has bitten several including my husband. The dog will be fine and then out of the blue it just goes nuts and bites someone. I have had the dog in my home for about 3 weeks and it just loves me. I can not let it have free run of the home because of the biting. I was not aware of this when I agreed to pet sit him.

They have tried prozac and also a few different trainers. They have asked me to bring the dog in and have him euthanized. They are very nice people and can not bear to bring him in. THey are very upset and wish they had another solution. They have children that the dog tries to bite too.

Is there anywhere for this dog to go? Is there any other way?

Please do not try to knock the owners as they really are torn up about this and have really tried with this dog. I would just like to hear if there is another answer other than putting him down.

Thanks

Durbkat · 07-03-2007, 11:19 PM

It sounds like they never taught it to stop biting when it was a puppy. See if this helps, http://www.dogforums.com/19-first-ti...tops-here.html (The Bite Stops Here)

When it bites to hard let out a loud ouch and then stop playing with it. But it sounds serious. If doing what is discussed in the article doesn't work you may have to use a shock collar and when it goes to bite, shock it.

applesmom · 07-03-2007, 11:59 PM

Have they had the dog checked thoroughly by a vet including thryroid function?

Quote:

Another interesting association which as been increasing in frequency is the link between thyroid dysfunction and aberrant behavior. Typical clinical signs include unprovoked aggression towards other animals and/or people, sudden onset of a seizure disorder in adulthood, disorientation, moodiness, erratic temperament, periods of hyperactivity, hypo-attentiveness, depression, fearfulness and phobias, anxiety, submissiveness, passivity, compulsiveness, and irritability. After the episodes, a majority of the animals were noted to behave as if they were coming out of a trance- like state and were unaware of their previous behavior.

http://siriusdog.com/articles/behavi...tion-dodds.htm

Does the dog give any clues through body language before it attacks and is it a one time snapping incident each time or is it an all out attack?

Here's another link that might provide some insights.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/medical...ogs/page1.aspx

I wouldn't even consider putting the dog down until all medical possibilities have been ruled out.

peace36 · 07-04-2007, 08:42 AM

The dog will be walking around all normall acting fine than suddenly dart and attack. He bites really hard and draws blood and will not stop unless someone who he likes stops him.

He attacked my husband so quick and unexpected and bit him 3 times before I could grab him. My husband had already met the dog and pet him and all was fine. WHen he attacked my husband my husband was just standing there reading a piece of mail on the other side of the room.

He bit into my husbands tendon on the one leg and drew blood on his hand and other leg.

He has been thourouly checked by a vet. He bit a couple of trainers unexpectedly too. It is like he suddenly snaps.

Jen D · 07-04-2007, 08:48 AM

I feel terrible for the owners but I feel that putting him down would be the best thing. If he was a large dog he would of been gone already, it is very sad but you would have to find a single owner that has no kids or that come over and who ever gets the dog is looking at law suits.

peace36 · 07-04-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen D

I feel terrible for the owners but I feel that putting him down would be the best thing. If he was a large dog he would of been gone already, it is very sad but you would have to find a single owner that has no kids or that come over and who ever gets the dog is looking at law suits.

Yes, unfortunately that was my thought too. Sad because he is such a cute little dog and so sweet when he likes someone . But I have talked with his vet and my vet and went round and round different opitons with his owners and really we have found no other way.

The only thing that makes me feel ok about the situation is that I really believe there is another better life after this one even for dogs and the owners really seemed to try thier best with him.

Jen D · 07-04-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace36

Yes, unfortunately that was my thought too. Sad because he is such a cute little dog and so sweet when he likes someone . But I have talked with his vet and my vet and went round and round different opitons with his owners and really we have found no other way.

The only thing that makes me feel ok about the situation is that I really believe there is another better life after this one even for dogs and the owners really seemed to try thier best with him.

You also have to remember you gave it a good shot and that is more then most people would do!

peace36 · 07-04-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen D

You also have to remember you gave it a good shot and that is more then most people would do!

Thanks

The truth is I had no idea the dog had this kind of problem when I agreed to watch him. I am glad he came though but have learned to be more careful in the future.

Orange County Ca · 07-04-2007, 08:35 PM

I have a Bishon/Beagle mix and the previous owner and I both had that problem with him. I still do.
We use a muzzle until he knows a person well enough to be trusted. Normally about 4 visits.
If you or the owner wants to keep him I'd try the shock collar.
Like any dog you can never trust them completely and this one even less so.
I thought I had the only Bishon that bit. I was told it was the Beagle in mine as they're very territorial and this one is.

Durbkat · 07-04-2007, 08:45 PM

This lady I know has a bichon and its the nicest dog ever. It didn't even know me when I came over and it was all happy and jumping. lol

Inga · 07-04-2007, 10:29 PM

[quote=Orange County Ca;93803]
If you or the owner wants to keep him I'd try the shock collar.

I am not judging this, I am just asking a question. How do you use a shock collar in this situation? Wouldn't shocking the dog when it goes by people actually make it more vicious? If you were going to zap it right before it bit the dog would have to be giving off some hint that it was about to strike. I think ones timing would have to be perfect. I am just curious.

Durbkat · 07-04-2007, 10:53 PM

You shock it as its lunging or when its starting to bite.

Curbside Prophet · 07-04-2007, 11:05 PM

(improperly used shock collars)

There's no place for shock collars in counter conditioning.

Durbkat · 07-04-2007, 11:33 PM

How is it improper use? Wouldn't shocking it when its about to bite or when its biting tell it that it will experience something unpleasant.

Curbside Prophet · 07-05-2007, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

it will experience something unpleasant.

Absolutely! However, what you can't predict or shape is what the dog will make of the shock at the time it's given. He's just as likely to aggress further as he is to become emotionally damaged. If your timing is right (with 99% of handlers it's not), and if the shock is effective the first time (again, unlikely) it can be very effective. However, to recommend a shock collar in this situation is simply irresponsible. I don't know any other way to put it. It takes specialized training to use a shock collar effectively, and I know of zero that would use a chock collar in a case like this. And the specialized training starts with a certified trainer being in the presence of the dog and handler. This can't be achieved on a dog forum. Therefore, I think it's unwise to recommend anything more than seeking a certified trainer when it comes to shock collars.

IMO, this dog needs to taught *how to bite*, not how *not to bite*. And since this dog's history is largely unknown, and we can't see the behavior, I think a behaviorist should be brought in. Not a trainer, and especially not a vet.

DogAdvocat · 07-05-2007, 03:51 AM

Thank you CP, you're exactly right. I really don't think anyone should ever recommend shock collars to pet owners. If it were to be used at all, it should be only in the hands of a behaviorist. In this specific case, if the dog is telegraphing it's intent to bite enough to trigger someone to use the shock collar, then it's telegraphing enough to prevent the behavior with a leash.

The OP said that the dog had been vet checked, but didn't indicate what kind of tests had been run. Someone suggested thyroid function, but did the vet check that?

My suggestion would be to bring in a behaviorist and in conjunction with the vet, try to ascertain what is setting this dog off. This is not a common problem with this breed.

I'd also suggest that for the sake of the people around this dog, that the OP go back to crate training, and leashing the dog to you when not in the crate. Until retrained, the dog should not have the freedom to bite people - and I definitely wouldn't recommend the dog go back to it's owners, because if they didn't tell you the problem, they are unlikely to tell the next person and that puts both the dog and people in danger.

Have you contacted Bichon rescue?

Mdawn · 07-05-2007, 06:25 AM

I would think that this dog would have to be giving some sort of indication that he is going to bite. However, with it happening so fast it would be hard to see the body language. Eddie has a tendency to chase cats and I know right before he's going to take off after one. He gets very still and its just something with the way he holds himself that I can tell he's going bolt. I don't think that a person who didn't know him would recognize what his body language was saying. But with this dog reacting so fast with a bite, I would think that a behaviorist would be able to stay calm and collected enough to recognize the body language and maybe intervene in time to correct it. Eddie chasing cats isn't as serious, but I know that if I can break his focus on the cat and get him to focus on me with a sit/stay, then the cat can safely move on. If he's really intent on the cat, then I have a hand held thing that makes a really loud beep to get his attention. However, I don't think that he can ever be safely in the presence of a cat unsupervised in the future.

IMO a muzzle and a behaviorist are in order.

Also, I don't think that shock collar should be used by just anyone. People tend to become "shock happy" with those. Also, who knows how the dog would react, become even more aggressive?

Good luck with this dog and I know that if the dog is put down, the decision won't be made lightly.

Amaya-Mazie-Marley · 07-05-2007, 06:53 AM

I hate to say this but I think that if the dog has been tested for everything, there is nothing wrong, and its biting like that it should be put down. Its gone after 20 people including kids and your husband who was just reading a piece of mail. That indicates a psychological problem to me and it shouldn't be handled lightly. My only concern is that you would go out and spend alot of money on a behaviorist for this dog and in the end it would be put down anyways. You also said he is nice to people that he meets and likes. You went on to say that when your husband met the dog he was sweet and friendly, but yet he attacked your husband. Again another reason for thinking some sort of brain problem. I would never suggest a shock collar much less euthenasia but in this case I do reccomend the dog be put down. I don't look down on the owners at all. This dog came from a BYB and was obviously poorly bred and has problems. Sure they could have bought from a reputable breeder but they had no way of knowing.

Lorina · 07-05-2007, 07:38 AM

It might not be a popular opinion, but I believe a violently aggressive dog should be euthanized. There's sooooooooo many well-adjusted, nice dogs dying every single day, just because there's not enough homes. It's not a pleasant thing to do. It's emotionally painful for everyone involved, from the owners right up to the vet & techs who're there when the injections are given. But it's a matter of public safety.

Jen D · 07-05-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peace36

Thanks

The truth is I had no idea the dog had this kind of problem when I agreed to watch him. I am glad he came though but have learned to be more careful in the future.

I have had a lot of surprises like that and a lot of them turned out very sad, I am working with a little Yorkie now and I call him Cujo! he is fast but you can predict what he is going to do next. He is also very young and spoiled but the people are working hard on him with some advise so I think he will work out.