Help me with some important APB questions?

mater'smom · 05-09-2007, 09:30 PM

I have a beautiful young pit, his name is Mater,after the cars (movie) character.My family have loved 4 pits in our home.The problem we are having is that Mater is aggesive with my 6 year old.I need to know what to do?I can not in my heart do anything that would cause him pain,Mater or my son,my son is the one that named him.I would love to talk to someone who I hope has more experience than we do.And please no negative feed on pits I've already heard enough from my family.Thanks and I hope I don't offend anyone with my last comment,but I'm at my witts end.

thank-you very much

ScareCrow · 05-09-2007, 09:39 PM

How old was Mater when you got him? Pitts are not a human aggressive dog normally, I hope this dog wasn't poorly bred. As for what to do, well first and foremost don't leave Mater around your son without strict supervision. Pitts may not be a people killer normally but if they attack a child, especially a 6 year old, the child won't stand much of a chance. The next thing you need to do is contact a behaviorist and see if they can find a cause that can be fixed. Hopefully it's just a dominance issue that can easily be solved but be aware, these dogs are so popular that many are poorly bred and can be aggressive, if you have one of these you may need to look for a new pitt IMHO.

Curbside Prophet · 05-09-2007, 10:02 PM

Has this dog ever bit anyone? How is his bite inhibition (does he have a soft bite)? How young is the dog? How old was he when you got him?

mater'smom · 05-09-2007, 10:41 PM

We got Mater because my husband is a repo man.And one night he could not find an address he went to the local fire department.One of the firemen that he talked asked him if he was looking for a pet.Then he showed Bryan this very pathetic 6 month old rednose pitt.Locked in the back of an animal rescue truck in a 2x4 cage so after he broke the lock (I guess he never told me),he called me to tell me he was bringing home a new baby.When the puppy got here he went straight to the bath room and stayed there for 2 days until he finally came out and parked himself at my feet.He's not an aggressive baby he never has been.He's very submissive and hates to hear me say bad Mater.This behavior just started last week.And he did bite my son ,but in his defense my son is very aggressive when he plays could that be a problem?Please I don't want you to think that I'm not worried for my son,but Mater didn't hurt my son he more scared him.Like I said before Mater has never shown any kind of overt aggession he doesn't try to attack any animals or people,but he does hate skateboards.

xoxluvablexox · 05-09-2007, 10:42 PM

Your best bet would be to look into getting a behaviorist. Pits aren't supposed to be human agressive and if your dog is showing signs that he is then it could be do to bad breeding. For the safety of your son I wouldn't let them be alone together. How old is your son? How long have you had the dog?
What has he done that makes you think he is become agressive towards your son?

mater'smom · 05-09-2007, 10:44 PM

He has never bite anything or anyone.He more scared my son than anything and it was a slit indentation more of a warning back-off bite.We got him at 6 months and he is now almost a year old.

He growls at him ,but only sometimes.See after he growled the first time he took him outside when my son was home.But he started acting like normal in the last 2 days so we thought we could bring him inside again,but while i was in disposed I heard him growl and my oldest son told me Mater had bitten my other son.

xoxluvablexox · 05-09-2007, 10:50 PM

I would just try to make sure your son understands that the dog isn't a play toy. It's a living thing and it doesn't always want to be poked at and have it's tail pulled(not saying your son does any of that.) From what you've said so far it sounds like you have a good dog that isn't sure about children and a little to fearfull. Fear in a dog can be a bad thing so I would still consider getting a behaviorist.

mattmania843 · 05-09-2007, 11:06 PM

Please for the sake of your son (not even the dog here so much) MONITOR EVERY SINGLE TIME your son goes near the dog, I am pretty concerned that he bit your son, thats pretty crazy. Please call a behaviorist or find a way to fix it because the last thing you need is an attacked son.

mater'smom · 05-09-2007, 11:13 PM

I appreciate you comments, but I don't think it has anything to do with being a play toy.I should tell you about everyone in my family;theres my husband you like to tease the dogs,and yes we also have a very silly female pitt,a 3 year old that at any time will run by anyone of the dogs and give then a big hug,my 6 year old which i've told you about,a cousin that like to com over and tease the dogs,all the children that my kids play with that at anytime could be up to 15 kids (my house has all the cool stuff that kids like)and last but by far not least my twins both 9 (1 boy and 1 girl) so my dogs had to get use to noise and touch and lots of things.That why i appreciate your comment about a behaviorist I'll go out and see one tomorrow. Thank-you

Curbside Prophet · 05-10-2007, 12:22 AM

So you've had the dog for 6 months, he's now a year old, but you disn't answer my question about the bite inhibition. When he bit your son, did he break the skin?

Since your dog is of unknown origin, and has probably been in training limbo for the last 6 months, a behaviorist is in order. Not because this dog is an immediate danger, but rather because there are fear responses being cued, and you need help in changing the cues to meaning something positive.

Why your son? Kids move funny to dogs, and you mentioned your son may have been rough with him. These kinds of movements can trigger fear responses. You need to break up the chain of thought into something rewarding. What needs to be done and under strict supervision as mentioned, is your son needs to be seen as a non threat. This will probably mean insuring a good bite inhibition, and getting your son to train your dog using food rewards. A good trainer will be able to define a protocol for you to do this.

In the mean time, manage your child around the dog, and try not to place your dog in compromising positions around your child. Your dog isn't a bad dog, he's just confused. So please do seek some help.

mater'smom · 05-10-2007, 12:59 AM

I'm sorry Mater just barely broke the skin it looked more like a scratch.

Curbside Prophet · 05-10-2007, 01:32 AM

Classifications of Bites

Well-known veterinarian, dog trainer, and behaviorist Ian Dunbar has developed a six-level system of classifying bites, in order to make discussions of biting behavior more
consistent and understandable. Those levels are:
Level 1 Bite – Harassment but no skin contact. This is the
so-called snap. Don’t kid yourself. A snap is an intended
“air bite” from a dog who did not intend to connect. He
didn’t just “miss.” It is a lovely warning signal, telling us that
we need to identify his stressors and either desensitize
him or manage his behavior to avoid exposing him to the
things that cause him undue stress.
Level 2 Bite – Tooth contact on skin but no puncture. Again,
this is a bite from a dog who didn’t intend to break skin,
and a warning that this dog is serious. It’s a very good idea
to remove the dog’s stressors at this point, before he graduates
to the next level.
Level 3 Bite – Skin punctures, one to four holes from a
single bite (all punctures shallower than the length of the
canine tooth).
Level 4 Bite – One to four holes, deep black bruising with
punctures deeper than the length of the canine (which means
the dog bit and clamped down) or slashes in both directions
from the puncture (the dog bit and shook his head).
Level 5 Bite – Multiple-bite attack with deep punctures,
or multiple attack incident.
Level 6 Bite – Killed victim and/or consumed flesh.

It sounds like a level 2 bite, would you agree? Level 2 is trainable, and as it says, remove the stressors. That's what you can do now until your dog has had some training.

This is for your understanding of what will be involved. It's in reference to puppies, but your dog's training may be very similar in many respects...
Dog Tip: Bite Inhibition -- an Essential Part of Socialization

sweetheartjess · 05-10-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curbside Prophet

Level 6 Bite – Killed victim and/or consumed flesh.

*shudders* scary descriptor.

cshellenberger · 05-10-2007, 01:52 AM

This was a warning bite.

1 DO NOT allow your son and the dog to be together alone, strict supervision when they are the same room. YOU are responsible for managing this situation and controlling the fate of your child and dog.

2 Train your SON to leave the dog alone go to http://www.doggonesafe.com/ and download the educational items there and teach your son the PROPER way to behave around a dog. This is IMPORTANT, you don't want your son to end up with 50 stitches in his face like my daughter and your dog put down because of it.

3 Get a BEHAVIORIST to work with you and your dog. Here is a list of Behavioral certification associations that can help you find a good behaviorist.

http://www.iaabc.org/consultant_locator_dogs.htm
http://www.apdt.com/
http://www.ccpdt.org/

mater'smom · 05-10-2007, 02:45 AM

thank-you for all your help.I read alot of behaviors that I see everyday with everyone in the family that I'm going to have to ajust.Hopefully this doesn't happen again.And Mater thank-you.

poodleholic · 05-10-2007, 06:42 AM

Quote:

He's not an aggressive baby he never has been.He's very submissive and hates to hear me say bad Mater.This behavior just started last week.And he did bite my son ,but in his defense my son is very aggressive when he plays could that be a problem?

This is not good, and why many breeders (of all breeds, not just Pitts) will not let a puppy go to a home with children under the age of 10. Dogs and children should always be supervised when together. Your son should not be allowed to play with this dog, period. Aggressive play by children with dogs is not ok under any circumstances, because they can trigger prey drive that can result in tragedy. Children, with their jerky arm movements and shrill, shrieky voices often trigger the dog and end up bitten - by dogs who are NOT bad dogs, just dogs being dogs.

It's easier to train a dog than it is a person, especially a 6-yr. old child who already displays aggressive play with the dog. You have a very dangerous situation here. Your son's behavior could get him seriously hurt, or cost him his life. And then your dog would be put to death as well.

Carla has given excellent advice and information. Only you know your son, and whether or not he will leave the dog alone. If you cannot trust that he will, then please re-home this dog now, and wait until your son is more mature before bringing a dog home.

SFury · 05-10-2007, 07:20 AM

It sounds like a child problem. Mater is just saying stop the only way he knows how. You need to supervise your son around Mater and correct him. Mater isn't the problem. Your son is the problem. You MUST teach your son what can, and can NOT, be done around the dogs. If he doesn't, then he could get attacked because of his actions.

If you have any doubts as to your ability to change your sons behavior, then Poodleholic is absolutely right. You will need to find a new home for Mater.

Jen D · 05-10-2007, 09:31 AM

while you are working on getting some help you could give the six year old some good jobs to do with the dog with you their to watch. Feed him, you could teach him to teach the dog to sit, and with you go fo rshort walks and let the six year old walk the dog in a closed in area. I would recomend to you owning Bully type dogs myself don't let the kids play any tug games with the dog. I had a friend that had an American Bulldog that bit her daughter just a scratch but she still bit. The dog never did it again so I think you can work with the dog and your son. You could also tie a leash to you rbelt when working around the house if you can't watch him and the kids together. If the dog was in fear they a bite or a growl is their natural way of protecting themselves. Good luck!

cshellenberger · 05-10-2007, 09:39 AM

I do NOT reccomend haveing a young child feed a dog, that is how my daughter got bitten. I had left the house and DH was watching the kids and dog when my child decided to go feed the dog unbeknown to DH. While putting the food in his dish the dog lunged and bit her in the face and head. This was as leval 4 bite and resulted in the dog being euthinized. My daughter was 5 and has permanent scars. Thankfully she isn't scared of dogs.

Dorygirl · 05-10-2007, 10:18 AM

This might not be a popular opinion, considering some of the people who post on this forum, but I would get the dog out of the house. A "child problem"? I think that's taking dog love a little too far.

If this dog has pit in him, then the potential power of his jaws can be fatal. No dog is worth taking the risk of your son being injured. Dogs can be very unpredictable and even with you in the room, a sudden act of aggression could happen.

I couldn't not post my advice on this one...I would feel irresponsible by not expressing my concern to you. Please think seriously about trying a different dog, especially since you have a young child in the house.