Husband wants to get a dog for the family...

Buggzter

Tony told me a week ago he'd like to get a dog for our daughter for Christmas. All our animals have a "main" owner, but they are all family pets - the 4 tarantulas, the 2 guinea pigs, and the Jendaya conure. We've had nearly every type of animal in our home other than cats and dogs in the past 3 years, but Tony was very very ill for awhile in early 2008 so we had to rehome nearly all of our animals as we couldn't properly care for them.

Now, we're both working full time (Tony SOME overtime - on call every few weeks), and bowl a couple evenings a week. We're about to move into a slightly larger appartment (1300 square feet at least - can't remember exactly), and it has a large fenced dog run near our building on the property, plus a HUGE park 5 minute drive away.

We live in FL, too, so heat can be a problem for some breeds.

Our daughter is 4 years old, but very mature for her age with animals as she has been helping care for them since she was just over 12 months old, and she does much of the care for the guinea pigs herself (we still check to make sure of course). I know that a dog would be primarily my responsibility, and I'm willing to do the work.

Schedule: Monday, I leave just after 9am, Tony gets back for a short time between 5:30 and 6:15, then we all get home around 9:30-10pm. Tuesday, we all leave before 7:30am, get home around 5:30. Wednesday is same as tuesday. Thursday I leave at just after 9am again, we all get home around 5:30. Fridays I leave just after 11am or 12pm depending on what time I start work that day, and we all get home around 10/10:30. Saturdays I am home, usually Tony is too. Sundays we have church and about 2.5 hours of bowling in the evening. In the week, Tony can come home for a potty break during his lunch as he works at the property that we are moving to in 3 weeks.

I'm more than willing to go for 30-60 minute walks in the morning, and play most eveings for 30-60 minutes outside in the dog run, plus play time in the house, and outings for much of the day some weekends. Becca would play with the dog a BUNCH as well, and so would Tony. Finances are not going to be an issue, as we are able to save significantly more money now than just recently, and can make sure we have enough for any emergencies saved up.

We also want to have another baby in the next couple years, but that will likely be it for kids in the house. And I've never owned a dog, though Tony used to have dogs a LOT in his past, but it's been 7 years or so.

All that being said, I've looked at small dogs mostly - maltese, bishon, pug-mixes like bugs and chugs, maybe even a puggle, and know that I'll likely not find one for awhile at a shelter as I'd prefer adopting from. I'm also willing to get a medium sized dog if it's the right dog for the family. No big dogs, and I need to make sure the dog would be good with Becca.

We're looking to likely get a young dog around 9-12 months old so as we don't have the puppy-horrors.

We went to the local no-kill shelter to talk to them about their rules and such, and we found the P-E-R-F-E-C-T dog attitude-wise. she's an unknown mix - Australian Shepherd and something else, making her a short-haired, slight shedding, but very smart and wanting to please like AS's often are. She's 1 year old and 35 pounds I think. She also warmed up to us right away, listened to us, and is GORGEOUS.

Again, it's a large appartment but still an appartment. There's a BIG dog run though, and we'll do lots of playing with her the whole time we're home. Becca will also be big on being a friend of her's... We also would make sure Becca visited with her at the shelter before we made the final decision.

So.... Would Carly be a good match for us? The ladies at the shelter said personality-wise, she'd match perfectly for us, and do very well with Becca as she's been good with other kids that spent time with her. But do we have enough TIME to keep her occupied? I'd make sure we'd try teaching her new things every day, and kept her very active. With how much I read, I could go to the dog park and just read while Becca and she played. I'm willing to do whatever training is needed too.

AKA, my big trepidation, as I have not owned dogs myself before (my husband has, and has had many different breeds in his past), I don't know if that would be enough time for the dog. I'd make sure once she's adjusted to our home that she would be able to at least be out much of the day in the house while we're gone, with tons of toys. If nothing else she could be in Becca's room where her kennel likely would be (becca's toys will be in a different room always, and her nightly toy to sleep with would go back to the toy room during the day), and be able to be out playing with her toys in there. Heck, Becca has a tv she is allowed to sometimes watch in her room (30-60 minutes a day) that could be on for the dog if needed while we're gone.

Thoughts, ideas? I really really really really liked Carly and think she'd be perfect for us, as long as the time issue would work for us.

Thank you for all your help!!! Any other ideas for breeds and things to be concerned of would be greatly appreciated.

Buggzter

Oh, two other things.

1) my bird, Pheonix, is flighted and presently rules the home. I know she'd get used to a dog, and I'd watch them very very closely for the first couple weeks to make sure they'd get along or keep them apart as needed. Suggestions in all of this? What should I watch out for in the dog not liking the bird? How to I get a dog used to a bird that flys, without an interest in EATING the bird?

2) Where is a check-list of everything I need for bringing a dog home? I want to make sure I have everything I need - I know most things but I don't know if I have everything or not. I want to be the best owner I can be for the dog, which is why I'm asking questions instead of just going and GETTING the dog.

Keechak

Well first because your daughter is so young I would suggest an adult dog. Puppies like to bite and young children are usually the main target, a 4 year old can't defend herself from a rambunctious puppy thats using her hair as if it were a tug toy (I've personally seen it happen). Adult dogs around a year and a half to two years old have usually already learned not to bite or play rough, and their energy level and personality it pretty solidified at the age. If you were to go with a puppy you may pick out a calm puppy only to find out in 10 months that the calm puppy has grown into a hyperactive terror.

Most dogs in shelters are dumped there around 10-11 months old because they became too much to handle.

Puppies are also a LOT of work, It's just like raising a second child for the first year, you have to watch them every second to make sure they don't kill themselves. And you have to raise them right otherwise they can turn into that child that hits and screams when it gets older, except with a dog it would be Biting and Barking.

lizziedog1

I really, really feel this is not the best situation for a dog. That is my opinion based on my observations for almost half a century. You can get the dog and hopefully all works out well, but I really, really think dogs need more time then you seem to have. Dogs are pack animals. They are social beings.

If you really want a dog, please research breeds. There are some that do better with less human contact then others. There are exceptions to every case, but breed standards do serve as a guideline.

Whatever you do, good luck. If you do get one, please let us know what you got and how it is going. Even though I come across as grumpy, I do care.

Keechak

You are so right. Extra time may have prevented some of them. I ask that people observe folks that spend a lot of time with their dogs. Usually, not always, those dogs are well behaved.

In another thread, a reply came about a small community were the people are lucky enough to allow thier dogs free roam. Everyone seems to interact with dogs all the time. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts behavior issues are minimal.

Again, good repsose, you show maturity beyond your age.

Thracian

Lots of people work fulltime and have dogs. In fact, I'm one of them. I have to admit, though, that I'm pretty concerned about the Monday and Friday schedules. Even with a short visit, 10-12 hours is a long time for a dog to be alone and to be expected to hold her bladder. Is there some way the dog could go to doggy day care on those days?

Also, my impression of Aussies is that they are fairly high energy. Hopefully our Aussie owners will jump in with their experiences. For your situation, though, a low or medium energy dog would be best.

I would do my best to keep the dog and bird separated.

Buggzter

Thanks for your replies. I'm one to spend lots of time, actually, with the animals. Considering full time work, as Tony and I both are working different schedules we'd be able to spend more time at home with a dog than many other dog-owners I know. I'm willing to get up early for the walks when needed, play late when needed... Same as with my conure - she gets 4-6 hours a day out of her cage while we're home on average to play with each of us as she wants to, and plenty of toys to occupy her in her cage...

I know I'd be able to spend the same 4-6 hours with a dog - and I'd prefer really getting a year-old dog or so myself, though Tony wants it slightly younger. But it all depends on what we find that would work well for our family. The one Australian Shepherd puppy (6 months old) at the shelter was WAY too rambunctious for us to handle right now, while Carly (at around 1 year) was perfect in so many ways in the shelter.

But can the 1-2 hours a day OUTSIDE plus the play inside be enough for an AS mix? Tony is kinda set on her, but I don't want to bring her home if that amount of outside time and then another 2-4 hours of inside constant human time wouldn't be enough for such a dog.

What breeds WOULD you suggest in such a household? With both of our full-time jobs being on different schedules, we could really spend more time with the dog than if both of us worked 8-5 during the week, which to me means we'd have that much more time for an active dog - we're at home with our bird more right now than most of the people I know with dogs are home with their animals... And with such a gem as Carly seems to be I'd be more than willing to do it.

I don't want to do any sudden decisions though, even though in many ways I'd LOVE to get carly TODAY. What do you think we'd need FOR an AS if that is what we go with? What requirements of time in morning and evening? What foods, toys, and training materials would we need for her? What sort of vet care would be expected with such a dog? Or other breeds you might suggest?

Again, I don't know if Carly would even still be there when we were able to get her (we're moving to the appartments from a slightly smaller place in just over 3 weeks), so we could easily look into a different match for our family, too. I'm trying to do as much research as I can... And I know it will be a LOT of excercise time needed daily, which is why I'm wondering if 1 and 1/2 hours at the minimum on one day of the week and then usually 2-3 hours of outdoor time would be enough for an active dog like her? What sorts of dogs would that NOT be sufficient for, so I can keep them in mind as not appropriate? Again, I'm trying to educate myself, too.

Anyhoo, I have a few things to pack now, and I'll look into this more later, as well as your responces. THANK YOU AGAIN! Trust me.

Krystie

Edit - Thracian: Tony has his hour lunch and a couple breaks, and since we'll live at the property where he works he can let him/her out a few times each day, or at very least for 20 minutes (I asked him) during his lunch. So s/he would be in our home from just after 9am on mondays until around noon for Tony's break, then a break around 5:30 with him home with Becca, and then right before they leave around 6:15/6:20. So there IS that 5-6 hour time frame for the dog, and then another 4 hours that evening. Friday is the same other than I leave usually around 11am instead but s/he will have the same afternoon/evening schedule. If I need to, I'll find a daycare for the dog, too, as I don't want to neglect my animals - if they need more time than I can give them, I shouldn't have them basically.

I also agree that a low to medium energy dog would fit, but the AS mix we met today, Carly, seems to be within the upper limits of the range. The other AS mix was much more AS-looking, with long fur and HIGH ENERGY!!! Sheesh he was jumping everywhere and stealing treats and ripping toys... Too high energy for where we live right now. If we owned a home with a BIG back yard and I was only working part time or not at all, he might work for us. But not now. certainly not now. I was leary of the AS part of Carly until we spent time with her since she was very calm about it all - wanted to lick and love and cuddle, would fetch, would drop the toy with a gentle pull from her, and was willing to just lay there for us for pets. Although, I will be going back a few times to see her again so I know whether or not she'll be a good match for us, and I'll take Becca to "play with the puppies without homes so they have someone to play with" *cough*. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

And Pheonix will be kept in her cage until she can not yell at the dog and the dog is not interested in her while in the cage, and then she'll be held with us for awhile for the dog to get used to her out of the cage. Then the dog kenneled while the bird flys around so the dog knows what she can do... step by step for them to get used to one another and then respect one another. If it doesn't work, though, we'll reorganize things and the bird can play with Becca in her room while the dog is in the main house, or the bird on the porch for awhile, or whatever. People with multiple birds that don't get along can do it, so I know I'll be able to figure this out too.

Cheers all - more packing!

lizziedog1

You will get many replies from many different folks here. You need to weigh them all. The final answer will be yours to make. I want to offer one more suggestion.

Go check out real live, flesh and blood dog experts. Go talk to vets, groomers, trainers and breeders. Pick their brains and see what they tell you. Also, go somewhere that has a lot of dogs playing. Look at the ones that mind and behave. Go talk to that dog's owner and really listen.

Cracker

Lots of good info..I have afew things to add:

An aussie mix is a high energy breed and it sounds like you could have the exercise time to work with her BUT it is also important that the dog get to WORK. This means lots of training time, maybe agility or herding classes occasionally to keep her mind occupied.

Also...regarding timing..Christmas is a bad idea. Sorry to be blunt but Christmas time in many houses is high activity, stressful, lots of comings and goings and excitement. A newly adopted dog of any kind in this environment can experience some pretty intense stress..I would look at getting the dog either well before or AFTER the New Year instead of in the midst of the insanity that is family holidays. Whether this dog is a good fit or not will make little difference in the stress she will feel trying to acclimate to a new environment during the holidays.

lizziedog1

Cracker

Very good point. If the puppy is meant to be a Christmas present, even more of a bad idea.

MoosMom

I think ultimately it will be your decision. If you feel confident in the amount of time you can spend training, walking etc then I cant see a huge issue. An older dog(like what you are looking at) is better for a younger child. I do have a malamute puppy around my just turned 3 year old and I don't have issues, he gets treated like a toddler too! If you get the dog now it's better than at Christmas, less stress and gives the new family member some time before the craziness starts, if you have that much craziness in your house, I know I try to keep the holidays low key. Good luck to you

Buggzter

Ok, back a bit more.

We're a low-key family for holidays, and even with my parents in town it will not be too much different, really - it'll just be the 5 of us, plus animals. Not too much decor other than the tree, and we could keep the dog away from that by putting it up late and keeping the dog out of that room...

Also, we might just up and get Carly, which would be sooner for sure, or give Becca all the stuff needed for a dog for Christmas and then go searching for the "right" one then... It doesn't have to be a Christmas gift, that's just what Tony originally thought. But it is unlikely to be that way.

I think the excitement of a new puppy would be about the same for my family as it is for Christmas, but what determines it will be when we find the right dog for our family. And yes, there's a big part of me wanting Carly - she's pretty and loving and... *sigh* Again, I'm not gonna make a final decision until after I see her at least two more times, including one time with Becca there interacting with the dog.

Goodnight all. I'm off to bed to finish getting over this cold and more packing for the move in 3 more weeks. Bleh, I really don't want to move.

Oh, and we're making sure the move isn't crazy too - moving over a 2 week period, so if we DO get a dog around that time, it won't be too horrible - we'll make sure that we have basically what we NEED to have in the new place quickly with the dog, and then get the rest moved over in the ensuing 2 weeks. Lots going on.

Buggzter

Sorry if I'm a bit grumpy today and not taking crits well - bad argument with my mom about something just after we got back from the shelter (nothing to do with dogs though), so I'm more defensive than usual.

I know plenty of people with all size dogs that DON'T mind. I also know people with small dogs that are really badly behaved because of poor training, although I don't personally know any badly behaved larger dogs. I also see how much they exercise their dogs - little to none. My boss has two labs, she and her husband work more than we do, and run and bike with their dogs quite a bit daily. They are fairly well behaved because of the right care. My sister-in-law has a couple larger dogs: a huskey/pit mix, and a collie-pit mix. She doesn't walk them, just lets them out on the long leads in the back yard, but does good training inside basically and they are really NOT well-behaved since she won't take the time. *sigh* My mother-in-law has knee problems and a large mutt who needs excercise but cannot do it because of her problems. Luckily the dog is understanding and though a bit wound up she is calm enough and doesn't go nutty....

Each dog is different. I know Carly might be a holy terror as just an "Aussie mix", but there are differences within a breed and especially within breed mixes. If she seems to be near the top end of my preferred energy level the next time or two I go see her, I'll not adopt her as I don't want to give her a bad home. But, I do want to give her a chance - as I like to give to all animals. I've taken in a few reptiles and a guinea pig to rehab, and I've usually been fairly successful. I know dogs are a totally different story, but I want to be open to all the dogs there, waiting for the one that is right for us. I hope Carly is it, but I'm OK if she's not.

Heck, people told me Tony wasn't a good guy for me, and we've had some issues, but... I couldn't imagine being married to any other man, even with the issues (all relationships have issues).

As I do more research, I'll let you know progress. If Carly doesn't come home with us, I'll be looking into bugs, chugs, puggles, malteses, bishons, pugs... Maybe others too as they fit us, although if we find a match we'll take it. As today went, we found a better match with Carly as a medium sized dog than the small dog there. We'll just wait for the right dog and the right connection.

I also want to talk to a few people I know around here that have dogs and see what they think. The people at my church have well-behaved dogs generally, and they do spend a good amount of time with their dogs, too. Although, my pastor's dog is quite rotund as he's usually doing historical research and his wife is a teacher and does alot of work for the church.

I don't mean to be closed today, and I'll be going over what you said to me already tomorrow and the next day so I can really grasp what you are saying about all of this and really think it over. I've just had alot going on today.

BooLette

I just wanted to say that I have an aussie/acd mix and he is just over a year old. He is the most calm dog that I have ever met. We also have a corgi/shnauzer mix and she bounces off the WALLS! It is all in the dog. Every dog is different and just because it is a certain breed does not dictate personality. I really hope that everything works out for you and you get the dog that fits you the best.

Oh, only one thing about my boy: he likes to herd children. Some herding breeds nip at the kids when they do this, so I would be sure to let your daughter meet Carly first.

Buggzter

I absolutely am making sure Becca meets Carly first. Becca is excellent with animals, and if Carly is as smart as she seems to be (from the little we saw her), I hope I can train her NOT to herd humans, but maybe to herd the guinea pigs when they are out... Nah, I'll be trick-training her as much as I can for quite awhile, and then when we own our own home we'll have agility training to do with her.

I just hope she IS as calm with Becca. If she stays calm over the net couple visits, and is good with Becca as well, I'd say she's a match made in heaven! YAY!!! If not, that's OK and we'll find that perfect pup for our family.

Thanks everyone - still looking forward to reading what you think on the matter, no matter your opinions. Once I get some good sleep in me I should be fine. (still can't sleep... stupid pains from the cold... Nearly gone tho)

Dog_Shrink

Carly sounds like a great dog and here is just another little food for thought... sometimes you don't see a dog's true colors when they are still in the shelter... a smart breed like a cattle dog might just figure out that being mellow and calm makes more people pay attention to me and you might not see the tazmanian devil inside until after a week or 2 at home... we call this the honeymoon period and it is when most dogs are returned to the shelter (within 2 weeks of adoption).

Second there is a great site called dogbreedinfo.com which gives you great decriptions of all dog breeds pure bred and designer breeds alike. www.dogbreedinfo.com

If you go with a smaller breed I'd make sure it was a tough breed maybe like a boston terrier (and if you get a more bully boston they're nowher near as hyper as a more terrier type boston. Mine is more bully and he is quite mellow and always was. Most smaller breeds are going to be huigher eneregy than larger breeds... my Dane ws the most laid back stotic dog you could find (next to my 80 pound boxer) whereas my toy fox terrier could and did run circles around him even at 7 yrs old. Don't rule out the big guys just because you think they're going to be more active. Some of the best breeds are in the 50 lb and up group... hounds like coonhounds fox hounds and the sort are GREAT family dogs. Treeing walker and black and tan coonhound is actually on my list of breeds to own some day. Go to dogbreed info and they have a section there called something like "match me with my breed" and it'll ask you a few questions about what you're looking for in a dog and offer the best suggestions for breeds that suit those desires.

Good luck.

Buggzter

Thanks for the tips DS, the returning issue is something I'm going to talk to them about the next time I go in, really. And the reason for small to medium breeds is because I'll be in an appartment - a LARGE appartment with a really nice dog run, but still an appartment. Thus most medium/big dogs are out. And I have to make sure the dog breed would work well with having other animals in the house, especially the flighted conure, and more than anything work well with my daughter!

That website has helped me a lot in looking at a number of different breeds I've looked at, and they kinda matched me up with some interesting mixes for small dogs. But since I'm looking into shelters, it's just a guideline for us as we go through and look there.

I HOPE that's not what Carly is doing. I really hope she'll be a good match. But I will NOT decide until 1) we see what she's like a couple more times, 2) we have everything we need for her and can put her in the new home, and 3) SHE IS STILL THERE WHEN WE ARE READY. LOL!!! After thinking about her, I really am hoping she'll be there still and that she'll fit us.

Also, sometimes the actions after the honeymoon period - could they also be the dog testing the new home out, finding the boundaries of the rules? Just curious - as I've never had a dog before, this is all going to be very new to me whichever dog I bring home! What resourses would all of you sugest for me to look into? Thanks everyone for your help, too.

Good night everyone!


PS - http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf76753168.tip.html Carly has different coloring, but I'm fairly positive she's a boxer/AS mix!!! From what I see, some CAN be laid back... I can only hope... Silly insomnia, but at least it led to what I think is her breeding!

skelaki

Just to let you know I had 3 rough collies in the past and all three were raised in apartments successfully. In fact the last 2 helped manage hotels (LOL). What I'm saying is that any dog can be raised in an apartment IF you're willing to do the work. My collies went to obedience classes, agility lessons, and had playdates with known dog friends. Plus long walks and playtime and mega-grooming sessions with me. Btw, Aussies do tend to shed--- alot.

Also, if you get one of the designer mixes, please get it from a shelter or rescue group and do not support the BYB by purchasing an over-priced mutt from a so-called breeder.

FaithFurMom09

I have a beagle/rotti mix and live in an apartment. The hardest part? Not having a yard. Space isnt an issue, just not having a yard is. We are moving to a house with a yard so i wont have to worry anymore.

As far as Carly, if you feel in your heart that shes the dog for you, then get her. I think when you find that perfect dog, you will just have that feeling and youll know.

Elana55

Good for you ASKING QUESTIONS before doing.

I read thru this and conisdering your flighted Conure, you will need to crate train your dog. This is for the safety of the Conure. You do not want to leave the apartment with the Conure and the Dog free together. Ever. Prey drive can give you a dead bird. There is a DVD you should get called "Crate Games" for crate training your dog. Source is www.dogwise.com

A crate will do a few other things. It will prevent the dog from getting on the furniture or chewing things inapporpriately (like electrical cords) or getting into the trash. It is also a good place to store the dog when you are preparing meals or eating (prevent begging at the table or counter surfing by preventing it from ever happening).

Another thing.. you are looking at breeds and all the rest but admit to knowing little about dogs. READ. Start with this book: "The Other End of The Leash" by Patricia McConnell Phd. It is an easy read and interesting with anecdotal stories in it. You will learn a LOT about dogs and what they do and why. READ that BEFORE getting a dog. Tony should read it too. Also can be had from Dogwise.

Next.. most dogs in shelters need training. Before you get a dog, find out where you can go and take a beginner obedience class with your adult rescue dog or other dog you might get (I too am thinking adult better than puppy at this point). If you get a dog, get signed up for a training class sooner rather than later. Many dogs are IN shelters because no one ever bothered to train them.

I like that you are planning this, including time spent with the dog, potty outs and the rest. I think you should read the above book as a starter before you get a dog. Knowledge is power!

melgrj7

We lived in a small one bedroom apartment with 2 large dogs and both worked full time (and sometimes overtime). If you are willing to make it work, it will work. I would definitly do obedience classes, find somewhere your daughter can go too, it would be great for her to learn how to handle the dog. My dogs still go to classes simply because it gives them something to do that they enjoy.

One thing that is great with an intellegent dog is to feed them out of toys and puzzles instead of out of a bowl. My dogs love this toy: http://www.petvetsupply.com/ptodtrc037.html, it can make meals last a lot long and therefore keep them them busy and entertained for awhile!