When can our puppy sleep outside the crate unsupervised?

EllenCherryCharles · 03-08-2007, 12:44 PM

Our 4.5 (ish) month old german shepherd/hound (?) puppy HATES his crate. He puts up with it, but I know he hates it. We introduced it to him using the crate training guidelines, but he's never really taken to it as his "den". As it is, he is currently sleeping in there at night (we had a few nights that we let him sleep with us in our bed, but he's too wiggly and snores, so we moved him back to his crate). He puts up a fuss for about 5-10 minutes after putting him away for the night (the crate is in our room). This is fine, we just ignore him and he stops eventually. I had kind of hoped he'd stop doing this by now, but it looks like he's going to whine every time we put him in there.

Lately, every time he wakes up (and he CAN go all night), he whines. Sometimes its just because we move a bit in our sleep and he hears us. On Saturday mornings when we want to sleep in a little bit (nothing extreme, just an extra hour or so), we take him out and then put him back in. He pitches a fit and WILL NOT STOP. Or at least won't stop for the hour we want to sleep. When we move or get up or in some way are moving around he immediately stops (he knows he doesn't get out if he's whining....this is some kind of extension of that). Anyway, lately on Saturday mornings we've been letting him roam the bedroom. He's fine. He usually just finds a nice spot to curl up and goes back to sleep.

So I guess I'm wondering, when should we allow him to sleep outside the crate? Did you ever retire the crate? Is it a good idea to keep it up just so he is used to it if he ever has to be boarded or needs to be crated at night while a friend watches him? If its ok to let him be outside the crate, should we

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-08-2007, 12:52 PM

IMO, the it is fine to retire the crate...but I might suggest waiting until he is used to it completely. Some dogs just take to it quicker. We didn't get Bridgette until she was 1 1/2, but she was a rescued stray with no training whatsoever....needless to say she HATED the crate and I'm not sure which (puppies whining or 1 1/2 year old dogs whining ) is worse!

But once she got used to her crate she would lay in there on her own and uses it still as a retreat when she feels like a nap away from everyone.

We had her starting to sleep out of the crate as soon as we knew she could hold it through the night....but she still went (and does) stay in her crate when we are out. We are just now working on starting to let her out of the crate when we're out...she's housebroken but not used to being alone and having the living room to herself.

I don't know if any of that information helps, but I think if you are sure the pup can hold it over night there's nothing wrong with having him out IMO.

briteday · 03-08-2007, 02:42 PM

How long have you been using the crate? How long have you had the dog? All of our dogs disliked the crate in the beginning (varied from 1 day to 3 months) but all of them use their crate now as a private retreat and enjoy the privacy. We "baited" the crate with a yummy treat, and still do, at bedtime. Our papillon's crate is in the family room because she snores. And also because she likes to go in there a lot during the day. Our puppy's crate is in our teen's room because it is her dog and she wants it in there. However, she mentioned that she HAS to get to sleep before the dog because the dog snores so bad! I think that one will eventually move to the family room as well!
We've had a number of foster dogs lately. It is required that they come with crates and sleep in them. Some have never seen a crate before. We put them out in the family room, bait the crate at night, and then close the door to the room until morning. Some howl and whine but they get over it within the first few nights. Rarely do any pee or mess in their crates if they are the right size. A few have done much better when we covered the crate with a light blanket, like covering the canary at night!
My rule of thumb with the length of time a dog can go without relieving themselves is by their age. Almost five months, not RELIABLE for over 5 hours. Usually by 6 months most dogs can go 6-8 hours without a potty break. However, none of my dogs has ever been left out of a crate all night except on rare ocassions. I just see too many household hazards free for the taking when we are asleep at night. If you don't have small children of your own, invite over a friend who has toddlers. Ask them to go thru your house looking for poison hazards, choking hazards, etc. Toddlers will get into the same thing as puppies so the analogy works well. Also, dogs are considered young, some say puppy, until 2-3 years of age. They are not entirely stable until then. Sort of like adolescents making the wrong choices. If you choose to leave him loose at night I would at least confine him to the bedroom by closing the door. Beware of electrical cords, medications, small scented objects like candles (lovely to chew but gums up the insides), and access to a master bathroom (if you have one).
Good luck!

CrzyBritNAmerica · 03-08-2007, 02:54 PM

I have to agree with briteday....with a puppy I'd be a lot more inclined to leave them in the crate overnight...our dog was already 1 1/2 when we got her, so she was a puppy, but not a little puppy. Another thing to keep in mind is, does the puppy sleep through the night? When we first got Bridgette she didn't sleep through the night most nights. She would wake us up at 4 or 5 in the morning! Now it's us trying to get her up because she likes to sleep in lol. I agree with briteday in that you'd want to confine the puppy to your room if you do decide to uncrate her at night, and of course puppy-proof your room very well. Bridgette will be 3 in August and she rarely gets into stuff, but I have always been paranoid that if I ever left anything potentially dangerous around that she would get into it, so I make sure our room is dog-proofed even now.

Another thing to ask yourself might be, what would puppy do if he did need to relieve himself at night? Bridgette doesn't have to go in the night anymore (she can hold ot up to 8 hours so it's different with her) but just the other day she was feeling sick in the night and whined and whined until we woke up and took her out (it wasn't that pleasant either, poor baby). But if the puppy doesn't ask to go out he may think it's okay to just go in your room.

Well anyway, hope some of this information is useful!

Good luck!