Border Collie or Dalmation??? HELP

Sebastian_Doggs

Hey I've never had a dog b4 and am wondering if I should get a Dalmation or a Border Collie puppy. I know these dog breeds are better off with a more experianced owner, but I love these 2 breeds very much. Which one would be easier to raise for a first time owner though?





Thnx very much.

melgrj7

What is your lifestyle like? How much exercise is the dog going to get? How often are you going to be able to take it out and socialize it? Can you afford to take it to obedience classes? Can you do daily training sessions? Do you have a job for the dog to do?

Sebastian_Doggs

Well I'm a student, so I'll be at school for most time on weekdays. My dad is at work for about most of the day but my mom is a stay-at-home mom so she's home most of the day. I'd say we're a pretty active family. I LOVE sports, basketball the most and so does my family. The dog will be taken outside to be walked every day, and will be taken where ever we go, so he will be socialized. Money I don't think is a problem for my family. I might not be able to train my dog everyday (exams, tests etc), but I'm sure my parents or my sister will. I'm also pretty confident that I will do a good job training the dog as I am a big "The Dog Whisperer" fan As for a job, I'll probably train him how to fetch the newspaper, bring down the laundry etc. I don't live on a farm or anything so I won't have any intense jobs for him to do like herding animals or anything.

Do you guys have any ideas for jobs I can give my dog?

Marsh Muppet

Find new breeds to love. Don't get me wrong, both are great breeds but they are pretty wrong for a first timer.

Border Collies are very demanding of time, training, and patience. They are high-drive, high-NRG pups, and can be very strong willed. They think they are smarter than their humans, and they are frequently correct in that assessment. Ask any of the folks who have one; they keep even experienced BC owners on the balls of their feet.

Dalmatians are often very strong willed and can be pretty quick to bite. When I was a kid, Dals were extremely popular and everybody I knew had been bitten by one. Back in the 1980s, black and white/harlequin patterns became the trendy fashion and lots of Dalmatians began showing up as fashion accessories. I saw the same temperaments in those dogs. Not that they can't be trained to be good citizens (they absolutely can) but they require the correct hand to become that. It is a breed I would not recommend for a first timer. They are big dogs and stronger than they look.

There are better choices for your first dog.

BarclaysMom

I'd say Dalmatian if you don't have a real job for a border collie. In fact you might want to see if you can find an adult dalmatian that needs a home. Our Dal was 3 or 4 when we got him, and he was active right up until the end when he was 11-12. They are very active dogs, they love long walks and hiking, they tend to trot everywhere. They have a very easygoing, floating trot that covers a lot of ground. They were bred to run alongside horses! They can be a real handful as pups, but once they settle down a bit they are fantastic dogs.

Backyard breeders have produced a lot of dals without thought to health and temperment, so if you get a puppy be sure to get one form a reputable breeder. Ours was a rescue, and had a lot of health problems. But aside form his issues he was very loving and big hearted.

melgrj7

I don't have much experience with dalmations, but I grew up with a border collie mix. She needed to be kept busy all of the time, or she did it herself. I was an extremely active kid and never was able to tire her out. When i was in school my mom was home and would walk her and our other dog during the day. Lucky learned new tricks almost daily, she new tons of tricks. Since you are living with your family and they will be helping with caring for the dog, make sure they will all be willing to do a lot to keep a dog busy if you decide on a border collie. They also tend to be more sensitive type dogs and don't do well to the "dog whisperer" way of training. Despite your fandom I still highly recommend you take your pup, which ever type you get, to a puppy class and then onto a basic obedience class. There is a lot more to training a dog than poking it and intimidating it.

Both the breeds you are interested in have been bred to go all day long. They have a lot of physical and mental exercise needs. Some things you could get into with them would be obedience, agility, rally-o, flyball.

craven.44

Neither. Go down to your local shelter and find yourself a nice older puppy/adult dog that you like and that fits your lifestyle.

Sebastian_Doggs

Alright. Don't worry, I will take my pup to basic obedience classes. Haha ya I know theres more to it than poking and intimidating the. Being the pack leader and not the follower is the most important for me. Thanks for the advice

Thanks for the advice. I heard that they are hard to train, is that true?

BarclaysMom

Ours was as dumb as a post, but he was really exceptional! It wasn't his fault, he was badly abused and beaten before we got him. Many of the other dalmatians I met through the rescue were really smart, one even worked with the local fire department in the public outreach programs (she could demonstrate "stop,drop,and roll" for the kids) and rode the firetruck in parades. And she was deaf and did it all with hand signals. Her owner was very devoted to her to get her that far.

Our first dog was an eskimo, which is not recommended as a first-timers dog, and our second dog was a dalamatian! So I take the 'recommended for first-timers' thing with a grain of salt. The important thing is to be as devoted to your dog as he is to you, and work with him and give him the exercise and the time he needs. All breeds seem to have their special challenges!

Check out petfinder.com to see what sort of dogs are available in shelters and rescues near you. The perfect dog might be there waiting for you to come along!

SMoore

I've seen so many border collies returned to shelters because people get the dog, think "oh what a cute furry creature" and then that creature grows up into this dog that NEEDS A JOB.

Border collies are very smart dogs but they are demanding, they need SOMETHING to do and room to RUN. My parents had a border collie growing up and they had a huge yard (about 2 acres including the house though) but anyway every time it would thunder or even look like rain the dog would get over the fence and go a few blocks over to the donut shop.

My dad made the mistake of taking Riley with him to get donuts one morning and the lady gave the dog some donut holes, ever since that day anytime it rained or even would thunder, even if it felt like rain the dog would show up there. They had Riley for a good long while about 15 years before he had to be put to sleep but that dog was a handful. He was really the worlds worst dog, but we all loved him to pieces.

He ate my clothes, my books, tore my room apart, ate our air conditioner, christmas lights, a few couches, the corners of anything made out of wood, chair legs, jackets hanging on chairs, remotes, even got into christmas cookies one year but that was the most fun dog i've ever had. I was only 7 or 8 at the time so I knew nothing about training dogs and you can be sure my parents were not going to do it.

Anyhow, they are wonderful dogs and have a ton of personality but they are a handful and you have to be sure you can dedicate time to training them.

I also had a rough collie growing up and she was the best dog ever. Have you considered one of those? I was still young when my parents got her but I remember training her and her following me around the neighborhood. I never really put a dog leash on her, i didn't know better I guess but she never left my side. I took that dog with me everywhere and my parents would walk her up to school to pick me up every day. She was awesome! She didn't seem to have quite as much energy as the border collie but was still pretty active.



I don't know much about dalmations. I've met plenty of mean ones so I'm probably not the best to pitch in about them.

briteday

Neither. Both breeds are high maintenance. If you do not live on a farm or ranch there will not be enough work for the dog to work off their endless energy and you will end up with a miserable dog and a miserable mom.

You said this is supposed to be your dog. But most days you are gone all day. Only "basic obedience" isn't going to cut it. I guarantee you that the border collie is smarter than you are about dogs right now, and the dalmation has more energy than you do after a full day of school. These dogs need a job, a real job...herding cattle, watching a flock, running like the wind...all day, every day. Basketball doesn't really cut it for a dog. And what about when you are old enough to go to college. Who takes care of the dog then? Dogs are a long term investment. Where will you be 12 years from now?

Don't dump on your mom every day and then blame her when things go bad. Instead go volunteer at a shelter. You will get plenty of experience with these breeds as they are very commonly surrendered by owners due to behavior issues, generally a result of boredom. If you still want one of these breeds you may be able to find an adult dog to adopt that has been well trained and settled down a bit. If not one of those breeds there are zillions of great adult dogs that can be well mannered and would make a great pet for you.

But I see the first order of business is educating yourself about dogs in general and give up the notion of instant gratification in the form of a puppy from a breed "that you love." You don't know you love the breed until you have worked with a few.

The second order of business is to give up on that "dog whisperer" stuff. Milan is not a professional and the tv show clearly states not to try those techniques at home. Seeing only 6 minutes of how he remediates a dog is not the whole story. And don't believe everything you see on tv.

tirluc

if you're a "big "'Dog Whisperer'" fan, i highly recommend NOT getting a Border (and i would really say the same for just about any breed)....you use half the methods that Milan uses on a Border Collie they will literally "shut down" on you (i've only met one BC that his methods would work for and that was due to owners stupidity [nasty ass dog])....they do not take kindly to the heavy handed training that he tends to use.....

also, they really need more activity than it seems you will be able to give, and unless you want your house redecorated, your yard relandscaped, etc. i wouldn't recommend a Border.....i don't know much about Dals having only trained 2 along time ago....

i have 5 Borders here....one is a new foster and the other 4 are working dogs (goosing) and are w/ me 24/7.....there is constant interaction even if it's just talking w/ them......we spend about 2-3 hrs at the park (dog club yard) playing ball, working directions, downs, stays, agility when we can, etc., plus they have each other when i am not physical/mentally playing w/ them....

Sebastian_Doggs

Thats acutally a fantastic idea. I need volenteer time any ways. Oh and don't worry, I will drop the Dog Whisperer stuff.

Lol. You guys must think I'm a robot or something. Just cause I like a show does not mean I'll do everything he does. I believe I said that it was a good show, not that Milan's techniques were good. Thank you for the adivce, much appreciated.

SMoore

I don't think you need to not watch it, but some of his techniques are a bit harsh. I like the show for entertainment purposes. I think he's a wonderful person for how he's helped many dogs who would have probably otherwise been put down be able to have a life.

As far as actual training I much prefer "It's me or the dog" on animal planet. But even she gets on my nerves after awhile. I don't even think it's the trainer, just the people she encounters. It's a show you might check out though and even enjoy!

zimandtakandgrrandmimi

Why do you want a dog?

Because while I own neither Border Collies or Dalmations...I do own a breed that is very very high energy and high maintenance.

And with your scheduale I have say that Dals And BCs and similar energy level breeds will bring you nothing but trouble.

So why do you want a dog?

Sebastian_Doggs

ha, alright thnx, I'll do that.

The biggest reason is because I want a companion, friend, someone that will be by my side no matter what. Also because I've always wanted a dog and love animals.

Laurelin

I would honestly look into rescue first. There are plenty of adult dogs that could do that, possibly even a BC or dalmatian type mix. A border collie is not the type of dog you get where you might not be the main caregiver. Everyone in the house needs to understand the breed and their special needs. They don't need sheep, but they need a lot of time and energy put into them to be good dogs. I can't tell you how many border collies and bc mixes we get in because of their energy level or for destroying their house. I have wanted one for a LONG time, but my parents weren't too keen on such a high drive breed, and there's no way I'm getting one while I have room mates now. I will have one, maybe not as my next dog, but eventually. It's good to get a kind of dog you like, but it's best to get one that suits you. While you live with your parents, I found out it's basically what they want. I always asked for a dog and ended up with a totally different one that my parents thought would be a better pet for the family.

Also, keep in mind that you will move out in the future. If the dog is going to stay with your parents, then it is definitely up to them as to whether you can even get one or not.

Volunteering is a great idea. I started while I had no dog (dorm living) and I continued on. You get a lot of experience with many different kinds of breeds. Plus you get to help homeless dogs.

zimandtakandgrrandmimi

What attracts you...specifically...about the Dal and the BC?

PugChick

That describes most dogs you can find in the shelter.

The only sane BC I ever met was owned by a man who used him to work cattle. I think they are great dogs but I wouldn't own one unless I had enough land to give the dog a real job.

I love dals (I think it's a holdover because I used to have appaloosas) but I couldn't keep one of those busy either. They were originally bred as coach dogs, and they still have road trials at dal shows. A dog that can keep up with a horse at a steady trot all day long for miles and miles and miles isn't going to be happy with an hour walk.

Dogstar

A dalmatian MAY bite you and absolutely will NOT listen to you if you're heavy-handed and into the 'pack leader' crap. I think a senior dog of some much more laid back breed would fit better with your schedule and your life.