New Dog, Crate, and Separation Anxiety

WorLord

Hello. I just joined today, and I just got a new arrival last Monday. Obviously, I have some questions, but first: the facts.

My wife and I live in a small one bedroom flat. I leave for work at about 9:30am and tend to work until I get home at around 7 or so. My wife works from 8-5, and usually gets home about 15 minutes before 6pm.

We have been talking about expanding our family to include a dog for a while now, and finally went ahead and rescued an 8 (now 9) month old puggle who was abandoned, shows signs of being abused, and has been in foster homes and kennels for quite some time. We agreed to foster him for a few days to see if it worked out, and did so a little earlier than I would have liked – I hadn't begun to prepare the small apartment yet, but the alternative was him staying at a kennel for two more weeks, and I wouldn't have it. In many, many ways, our Puck is an incredible gift. He's well behaved, though uncontrollable (leash-bound for the foreseeable future, and obviously not trained at all, with the exception of knowing “sit”.) He's mostly quiet, very social, smart as a whip, and incredibly agile. We call him our “furry velociraptor” given his almost insane ability to solve puzzles, and the rescue organization called him and his two brothers the “Houdini Triplets” for... well, obvious reasons. He is affectionate as all get out, and when we're not working, it is a joy to come home to him. We start obidience classes at the end of the month, and "mom" and I are very excited about that. :-)

Everything is fantastic when one or both of us are around him, that much is certain. He's got a bladder and bowels of steel – we don't need to crate him while we sleep, and he holds it the entire night with no apparent signs of distress. He even seems to be sluggish and annoyed when my wife wakes him to walk him when she gets up. It snowed and iced over for almost a week where I lived, so I stayed home with him, and he has no biological problems holding it for an entire work day. We walk him first thing in the morning, again after his breakfast, after his dinner, and before bedtime – that's it – and with the exception of the first few days (where he had a few accidents due to our ignorance), we haven't had a single accident when we're in-house the rest of the time.

The problem, of course, is when we're not around. He has separation anxiety. I leave for work last, so my wife didn't really know the extent of it, but the first day I went to work I put him in his crate and he howled like someone was trying to cut his tongue out. I could practically taste an eviction notice, because I could hear him in my car down the road. I thought it was because I was crating him, so I spent and entire weekend "dog proofing" the front portion of the house and got a dog gate (not to limit his access to the house, but to make sure he didn't fly out the front door when I came home, because he's a flight risk and FAST). Two things happened with that. One: the 32” “extra-tall” dog gate is a JOKE to him – he knocked it down the first time, and since then it takes him about five seconds to get through or over it, and two: he tore up the carpet and carpet padding near the front door.

I started spying on him to see exactly how bad his anxiousness is. He doesn't really seem *especially* severe – when left alone (meaning, when he can't access one of us do to a door of any kind, outside or inside), he waits about a minute, whines, and then flips out... but only for about five or ten minutes, tops. After he pitches his fit, then he's chewing something or taking a nap on the couch (which we really don't use, and which he fell in love with immediately.) But boy oh boy, the things he does in those five or ten minutes pretty much ensure I have to crate him when we're both not in.

He's not crated the rest of the time, not even at night, because he apparently doesn't really need to be. We crated him the first night, but he was a model citizen and didn't make a sound, and he hasn't messed the carpet at night even once. When one of us is home, no matter where in the house we are from each other, he's an angel.

So now my boy is crated when we're at work, and whenever else we both have to be out and he can't join us (which isn't all that often, so far). This has made leaving easier for ME - I don't worry that he'll try to lick the inside of a light socket, or chew on any other electrical cords, or rip up the carpeting again (exposing the carpet tacks that could shred his little feet in seconds). As a bonus, he cries a WHOLE lot less when crated and I leave (maybe 30 seconds of soft whining), and if I cover the crate with a blanket (leaving only the front gate and back vent holes exposed) I can't hear him cry at ALL outside my apartment, for any length of time. He always has his special crate-only frozen peanut butter kong, and ball with a sliver of cheddar cheese in it (he LOVES that), his nyla-bone, an expensive and comfortable bed that *I* would sleep on if it were my size, classical music... the whole nine yards. His behavior in the house has seemingly improved since we've crated him when away – he is much calmer and more compliant.

So, what's my problem?

I'm really worried that he's crated as long as he is. All other dog owners I talk to say its alright, and that length of time (though the maximum for his age) isn't harmful to him, but I'm just _not happy_ with that answer, because of a few things he's doing.

Firstly, he's started chewing on the inside plastic of the crate by the entrance gate. To be fair, I'm not sure this is crate-hatred or confinement issues or anxiety - when we first got him, his favorite chew toy was plastic, and he seems to favor chewing on anything plastic he can get. His sense of self-preservation seems to be really strong, even when throwing a fit – he seems to really want to get to his people, but (so far) not at the expense of his own health. His teeth and claws are intact, and nothing is bleeding or broken at all when I get home - though I do wonder exactly how long the crate is going to withstand this sort of thing.

Secondly, getting him INTO the crate *when I'm about to leave for work* is very difficult. He simply doesn't go in on his own, command or no. At any other time of day? He's all cool-and-the-gang with the crate – he doesn't PREFER the company of his little house, but he voluntarily goes in there all the time (entire body) to eat, and to find the random treats I throw in there all evening long, and can even go in once in a while when commanded to do so in the afternoons when we do practice sessions (crating him for 10 or 15 minutes with us in the room). We praise him LAVISHLY whenever he enters the crate of his own accord, even if its to eat or find treats. But in the morning time? The usual situation is that I chase him around the house, find him hiding under the kitchen table, lift him up and physically place him face-first into the crate (and shut the door with the quickness!). Once in, he's all about his peanut-butter Kong or cheese ball and doesn't seem to even notice I'm gone (though I'm sure he does).

The third thing that I find strange (and that happens daily, and that no one seems to talk about on any dog-centric forum anywhere) is that, within minutes of being released from his crate in the evenings, he – without fail – pulls out his bedding and drops it in the middle of the living room. (Does ANYONE else's dog do this??).

Basically, I'd like to NOT crate him, but he's noisier when I don't (sparking fears of eviction due to irate neighbors), gets into exactly the type of trouble which may end with a dead or critically injured dog in my house when I come home from work, and I haven't yet worked out exactly HOW to section him off. I can't find anyone that makes a pet gate over 32” high! I feel betrayed by the marketing showing a Lab or St. Bernard sitting patiently by this joke of a gate, when I know for sure my 26 pound puggle is laughing hysterically at the idea that this is supposed to stop him from going anywhere.

So I guess what I want to know, is: is eight or nine hours in a crate cruel to a puppy who can, of his own volition, easily hold his waste this long without any coaxing from us? Should we gate him off somewhere, and if so, how, considering that the tallest gate I can find up to now may as well be a sheet of paper? (Where to gate him is another matter – he obviously likes to rip up carpet and padding, and the only two non-carpeted spaces are rather small - but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.)

Are there other products we should know about that would keep him out of contact with with the carpet and give him a little more room during our time at work? We can't afford doggie day care ($20/day) or a walker (about the same) every day, and we have no one to sit with him during the day (everyone we know works), so apologetically, those aren't viable options.

Should I really be this worried about my boy, who (aside from the chewing and not wanting to get into the crate) doesn't really seem to have any bad side effects from the crating?

Any answers will help. Everyone (including the dog) but me is calm and nonchalant about this. My wife tells me its fine, and everyone else says we treat our dog better than most other owners out there. But I'm tying my stomach in knots worrying. Thanks in advance.

jcarm24

Crating is useful, but it should be a safe haven for the dog. If you started putting him in his crate for a long period of time, he won't like it. True crate training has to start with small amounts of time and working your way up.

He has to like being in his crate. Throw treats in there to get him in. Once he's in, close the door and give him another treat, and then let him out. Do this for a while and then move the time up to 5 minutes. Then 15, then 45. Give him stuff to do while he's in there (kong filled w/ peanut butter, or a rawhide).

Try throwing a smelling shirt in there. With my dog, this somewhat helped b/c the smell reminded her of me.

Make sure he's walked a lot to get rid of that extra energy. This way he's be all tuckered out when he's in his crate and will go right to sleep.

It will take time (a LOT of time). But consistency and patients will pay off. You'll probably even see a difference within a week or two if you do it right.

Good luck

WorLord

While that is true, and while it matches up to what I've read, I simply CAN NOT leave him out when I work. The odds that he'll hurt himself are far too great. And I can't NOT work, or all three of us will be out in the street.

What does a person DO with him in between the time it takes for him to warm up to his crate?


With all due respect, this works - EXCEPT in the morning. I swear he knows I'm crating him for the workday and just will not comply at this time.

What would YOU do? I'm taking the lesser of two evils approach, right now, because the crate is safer (ultimately) for himself and my apartment than letting him go un-crated, but no one seems to speak to the transitional period (where he hasn't warmed up to his crate, but can't be trusted to remain safe and healthy without it).

Kerry

http://www.nextag.com/dog-gate-tall/search-html

There are some tall gates on this site, if that's what you decide to do...
You are doing fine. I don't know if all dogs eventually warm up to the crate. Most seem to tolerate it because that's what the owner has decided for them. Don't feel guilty. You are giving your pup a good life and lots of love.

mom to lil buddy

While certainly you don't want to crate your dog that long, under the circumstances I don't see that you really have any choice. It will get better. My schnauzer demolished the baby gate and I had only put it up inside the door to protect the door because I knew she would scratch. She had never been confined, ran loose outside and had never been on a leash. (Before I got her). She simply had to be crated or she would have destroyed the house.

She too ran away initially when it was crate time, but eventually she got over it. And as long as you can deaden the sound with the blanket you shouldn't offend the neighbors and the blanket shoud make it more "denlike".

It sounds like you are doing all the right things to get him used to the crate. The other thing that I did when I had to crate her was to put the crate and dog up by a window so she could look out.

Another activity that we have started with my new rescue is "hangout" I put her in a room by herself tell her to "hangout" and then leave. She initially barks incessantly but as soon as she is quiet I return with lots of praise and pets (she isn't particularly treat driven).

You say your dog goes wild on your return home. Mine does too, but I show no interest in her until I put coat away, etc and she is calm then the petting and hello's--have you tried that?

Good luck--Virginia

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poofywoof

ANother option besides the crate is an ExPen (exercise pen). These folding, wire panels can be arranged into a few different shapes to give your dog an Area to stay in rather than a Box to stay in. Many crate-hating pups and dogs prefer the relative openness to the confined feeling a crate gives. Ex-Pens come in several different heights: 24", 30", 36", 42", and 48". You would need to find an acceptable place to leave it such as a kitchen or bathroom, because it has no bottom, the floor would then become the bottom of the pen. You could also do what I have done, purchase a linoleum remnant, to serve as flooring for that area (just in case). ExPens are available at many Pet Supply stores: PetCo, PetSmart, or many catalogs as well, such as PetEdge. Cost of an ExPen is dependant on size, but usually around $70- $80, which is cheaper than carpet.

WorLord

That's a great idea. I'm afraid that he'll knock it down (its hard to describe, but... he _flings_ himself at the top of the 32" tall pet gate to climb it), but I'm sure I can find that out within minutes of leaving the room. :-)


Do you have an example of this online or something? I've not heard of such a thing.

I'd pay $500.00 for the piece of mind.

Though this thread may be for nothing. I've only had the boy for a week and a half, and this morning he went all the way into his crate, lay down, and started in on his peanut butter treat without making a move to get out - even when I closed the door. I dunno. Maybe everyone is right, and he's really only stressed about my leaving, and not the crate.

I'm going to get a larger gate, and (if that fails) an ex-pen anyway, though.

poofywoof

To see an ExPen you can go to PetEdge.com and go to the section that lists crates, gates, and pens. An ExPen is a very handy and useful accessory to have, there are countless uses for it. I highly recommend one ! they can fold down to the size of one panel's height and width when not in use, so it's easy to store. You can take an Expen with you when you travel, they can be used indoors or outdoors. Expens give your dog quite a bit of space:you can put his bed, food and water dishes, and chew toys in there and he will still have room to stretch out, even walk around some.I don't think it would be easy to knock one over, and if you get the tallest one hopefully he can't climb it. Check it out at PetEdge.com, or just google Ex Pens.

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