Buying A Puppy

sbs2007 · 07-19-2008, 03:32 PM

I read a thread here where someone gave their advise on the "Red Flags" to look for when buying a puppy.
Most things listed were agreeable however, they said IF the breeder wants you to set an appointment, that was a red flag because it meant they needed time to make a mad dash to clean.
I would like to correct that statement to all that are shopping.
How would you like it if you had anything for sale and you told everyone they could just show up at their leisure because you have nothing to hide but they knocked on the door just as you were getting out of the shower or just as you were sitting down to a family meal OR better yet, you were with another client. So if a breeder has another prospective family alread at their home visiting puppies, now they can't give each family the quality time needed.
So making an appointment (in my opinion) insures the breeder will have adequate time to spend with you to answer your questions AND you will not be rushed trying to visit the puppies.
I don't feel this is a red flag but a responsible response. After all, many business such as doctors, hair dressers etc all have us make appointments and the purpose is not so they can make a mad dash to clean before you get there. LOL

Durbkat · 07-20-2008, 12:42 AM

Well with the shower situation, the breeder or a family member can tell the puppy buyers to come back at another time. If people are going to a reputable breeder they are most likely are decent people with manners, if they have that amount of money for a puppy, so they would have common sense and manners to not show up during the time most people eat dinner. If they are with another client then they can ask them to come back. So yes if they ask you to set up an appointment it does mean most of the time that they want time to clean the pens up.

Xeph · 07-20-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

So yes if they ask you to set up an appointment it does mean most of the time that they want time to clean the pens up.

And what's wrong with that? 10 8 week old GSD puppies can make a LOT of poop in the course of 30 minutes...and it can look terribly messy to those who don't know anything. It's best to start off with a clean pen and allow people to then view, so they can see that your dogs don't live in squalor, they just produce a lot of poo because there're a lot of puppies

rosemaryninja · 07-20-2008, 03:14 AM

While it's important to look out for red flags when trying to identify a reputable breeder, I think some of these assumptions are way too harsh. If I were buying a puppy from a breeder I would definitely want to set up a time. I mean, I wouldn't even consider "oh, what if this means she's a lousy breeder and wants to prepare a show to fool me" -- it's just common sense. When I go to my best friend's house for dinner, I set a time, and when I go to look at puppies, I set a time too. I hardly expect breeders to sit around at home all day waiting for potential buyers to randomly show up.

Ultimately, if you're going to a bad breeder, I really don't think setting a fixed appointment would be the red flag that would push you over the edge.

Shalva · 07-20-2008, 09:02 AM

actually there are many things in that finding a reputable breeder that need to be addressed and I addressed some of them in the sticky but that sticky needs to be redone .....

s

KaseyT · 07-20-2008, 12:31 PM

Of course it's reasonable to make an appointment to visit a persons private residence.

poodleholic · 07-21-2008, 07:19 AM

Quote:

they said IF the breeder wants you to set an appointment, that was a red flag because it meant they needed time to make a mad dash to clean.

I don't agree with this statement, either. There are too many other important factors to consider when selecting a breeder. (I've made mad dashes to clean when someone's coming over! LOL Big deal.) If cleanliness were truly a huge red flag issue with a breeder, making a "mad dash" to clean wouldn't be enough time!

If I were a breeder, there's no way I'd allow prospective puppy buyers to just drop in! An appointment provides both parties with the time needed for the selection/approval process.

pauare67 · 07-21-2008, 01:29 PM

What about the puppy itself? How do you pick the right puppy? I don't know the standards of AKC when choosing a pup. When I acquire a pup, there are three simple exercises that I do to check on the pup, regardless of breed, etc. First, I put my palm on the pup's underside and lift the pup. If the pup stays still while it's resting on my palm for 20 seconds, then it's a sign that it might be a calm pup. If it starts squirming the moment you lift it off the ground, then it might be a sign that it's a energetic excitable pup. Second exercise: I clap my hands while moving my hands around the pup's head. If the pup starts following the movement of my hands and the sound, then it's telling me the pup is alert and all senses are working. Third, I put my hands on each side of the pup and then gently press the body (as if you're squeezing them) and I try to feel for any lumps or any painful reaction from the pup. I then move my hands slowly down to it's front legs gently squeezing it then finally down to it's paws. Then I do it all over again this time going down to it's rears and feeling it's legs and then paws. I kinda learned this over many years of raising pups. I'm not a breeder and I'm not a pro dog trainer. Just an average dog owner.

I've seen a lot of buyers just pick up pups and cuddle and hug them without checking the pup's overall structure. Asking the breeder about shots and health guarantee is ok, but make sure to also inspect the pups.

Durbkat · 07-21-2008, 03:40 PM

Well a reputable breeder will not let you choose which pup you get. They know the pups way better than you can ever know them, even with doing those exercises. If the pup doesn't move while you lift it up, then yes that could mean its a calm pup but it could also mean its just a tired pup and could be the most energetic of the bunch.

wabanafcr · 07-21-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

So yes if they ask you to set up an appointment it does mean most of the time that they want time to clean the pens up.

No, it means that they have a life, like anyone else. My house is NOT available at all hours for whoever wants to drop by just because they might want a puppy. I am not available at all hours. I have a job, take various dogs to school on several weeknights, and have a life outside of the dogs as well. Weekends are often spent taking care of our 21 acres or at a dog show or an agility trial or what have you.

A prospective puppy owner must set up an appointment so that I make time out of my busy schedule to focus on them and their family, as I'm not about to get down off the tractor and stop mowing because you feel that my house should have a revolving door. No way.

Durbkat · 07-21-2008, 06:09 PM

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up.

RedSetter · 07-21-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durbkat

Well a reputable breeder will not let you choose which pup you get. They know the pups way better than you can ever know them, even with doing those exercises. If the pup doesn't move while you lift it up, then yes that could mean its a calm pup but it could also mean its just a tired pup and could be the most energetic of the bunch.

This is a ridiculous statement. I have been breeding dogs for the last 15 years and I have never picked out, or told someone what pup they should have. It is very important that the person buying the pup, picks the one they are happy with. When buying a pup, this is your first encounter and perspective owners should be encouraged to play with the litter of pups. They will then even at this early stage form a type of bond with a certain pup.

Durbkat · 07-21-2008, 06:58 PM

Actually if say the person wants a calm dog because they are not that active of a family and they pick the most outgoing hyper pup there. Then that dog has a higher chance of being put in a shelter because it wasn't a good match for the family. Alot of the breeders here will agree with me.

Dakota Spirit · 07-21-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSetter

This is a ridiculous statement. I have been breeding dogs for the last 15 years and I have never picked out, or told someone what pup they should have. It is very important that the person buying the pup, picks the one they are happy with. When buying a pup, this is your first encounter and perspective owners should be encouraged to play with the litter of pups. They will then even at this early stage form a type of bond with a certain pup.

Heh, you'll find many on this board that do not agree with your perspective on this subject. The new owner should never NEVER be let loose on a litter, free to pick whichever puppy they feel bonded with them quick enough. Not only would this bond be based on maybe 20 or so minutes of play time, but the prospective buyer has absolutely no idea as to how the pups normally behave. All they are seeing is the animal in ONE situation (ie. how they react to a new person) and frankly, that is not enough to determine if said puppy is right for your family. I think it was Shalva that said she can tell her puppy buyers how they normally react in certain situations, who is having an off day, who likes/dislikes what, etc. These are all important factors that the new owner is NOT going to pick up on during a short play session with the litter.

That's not to say I don't the prospective buyer should have zero interaction with the litter - that too is important. But the idea of "well, she/he bonded with me right from the start." is a somewhat outdated method of placing dogs, IMO. There is so SO much more to it then that. Especially when you take into account the fact that most people will 'bond' with any furry little baby animal.

RedSetter · 07-21-2008, 07:30 PM

Well, I would have to agree with you on that point. Maybe, I am bit detached form the whole "pet" thing. 90% of pups/dogs I would breed would go to competition homes. All my dogs are working dogs. But i do believe that people should pick there own pups. In saying that there is the scenario you just described.

But here in Ireland, All good breeders will take back any dog/pup they have sold without question. So if someone is have difficulty they can bring it back.

Also new owners, would contact the breeder if they have any questions.

Personally, I like nothing more then getting phone calls about setters I have bred. I sell them all over europe. I get calls frequently about them. ranging in topic form comps they have just won to difficulties trainers are having with them.

Durbkat · 07-21-2008, 07:36 PM

Here in the US there are more bad than good.

Dakota Spirit · 07-21-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSetter

But here in Ireland, All good breeders will take back any dog/pup they have sold without question. So if someone is have difficulty they can bring it back.

Good breeders in America take back their pups as well - but the objective is to avoid such an occurrence. Returning a puppy should be a failsafe and that's it. By guiding a new owner through the choosing process much of this threat can be eliminated. There are instances where the puppy still doesn't work out, but it is far less likely then if an uneducated buyer made the choice for themselves.

I don't think it matters if the pups are intended for pet or work/competition homes. The breeder would still be the person who knows best which puppy would do good in a working home or which would be happier living a pet life.

RedSetter · 07-21-2008, 07:56 PM

Here in Ireland a pup must be 8 weeks before it is taken from the mother.

What age is it in the States.

Durbkat · 07-21-2008, 08:20 PM

It's the same.

Shalva · 07-21-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSetter

Well, I would have to agree with you on that point. Maybe, I am bit detached form the whole "pet" thing. 90% of pups/dogs I would breed would go to competition homes. All my dogs are working dogs. But i do believe that people should pick there own pups. In saying that there is the scenario you just described.

But here in Ireland, All good breeders will take back any dog/pup they have sold without question. So if someone is have difficulty they can bring it back.

Also new owners, would contact the breeder if they have any questions.

Personally, I like nothing more then getting phone calls about setters I have bred. I sell them all over europe. I get calls frequently about them. ranging in topic form comps they have just won to difficulties trainers are having with them.

I will always take back any puppy but at the same time I dont think that most puppy people have the knowledge that they need to pick out the right puppy for them.... After having lived with my pups for ten weeks I know who is pushy, who is quiet, who is shy'er etc etc. .... when I do my structural analysis and temperament testing and pull out my show pups and my performance pups. I have the pet pups left. Considering gender I then match my puppies to the families. Based on the temperament of the pup and teh temperament of the people.... what their goals are with the pup... whether they have kids or not and the ages....

Puppy families are told this from the beginning..... and whats funny is that I tell them to get attached to all the puppies when they visit because they don't know who they will get..... but almost always they get attached to one or two pups and it seems like often those pups are matched to them anyway....

but my goal is to not get pups back.... my goal is to have a happy match between puppy and family and most reputable breeders in the states match pups to families ..... or give them two to choose from and advice them as to which they would suggest.... the only people who "pick" from my litters are very experienced dog people with extensive breed experience and performance experience who are looking for something very specific and have the knowledge to know what they are looking for.

s