My dog Marley

MarleyandMe · 05-21-2008, 02:53 PM

Hi, I'm new here. My boyfriend, Jamie, bought me something I've been wanting a longgg time. A border collie. Well, my border collies name is Marley and he is the smartest little bugger ever. How ever, my boyfriend got him from a pet shop. (which didnt make me happy at all.) Well, we're in kindergarden with him and he's doing well. but he can't seem to get the house training thing down. I'm not sure if it's the marking, or maybe he's just used to peeing everywhere. But Ive been to few sites and all of them tell me what I'm already doing.

He's in the crate while I'm at school, and the trainer/teacher told me that it wasn't too much time to stay in his crate, and he's only in the crate while I'm at school and while I'm sleeping. He does go outside and he gets rewarded for it. But then he just runs and finds a place to pee again or sometimes poo. He even goes in the crate!

His crate fits him perfectly if he lays down. There are no towels and I feed him in the crate to try to elimate the going to the bathroom in there. but nothing seems to help!

I would just ask the trainer but due to the holiday on monday the class is posponed for two weeks and I need a resolution so he doesnt think its okay to go in the house.

I'm only eighteen and my grandma is getting mad at me. I love my border collie and I need to get over this bump in the road with him so that our relationship is better.

I'm also curious about how to make him stop marking. He's almost three months old.

what do I do?

Curbside Prophet · 05-21-2008, 03:16 PM

Welcome to our forum!

Are we sure this is a marking issue? Or is it really a commitment to crate training issue?

Regardless, your approach will be the same. You need to provide more opportunities to reward acceptable elimination and reduce the number of owner-absent errors.

If he's eliminating in the crate, increase the frequency by which he's taken out. Since you're in school you may need assistance with this, as you may need to start hourly, if not half hourly. If he's eliminating in the house minutes after being let out of his crate, you need to take him outside seconds after being let out of the crate. Otherwise follow our sticky on housetraining.

MarleyandMe · 05-21-2008, 04:09 PM

There is no possible way for me to have somebody help me take him out. I get out of school at 1:55 and the dog trainer told me that that amount of time for dogs to hold it.
I hook on his leash before he even gets out of the crate.

when we're home I go every signal and every hour.

mostly, he goes on the floor when i'm in the shower. (always take him out before shower)

I'm doing everything I can

(Edit) Here's my normal scudual with him.

5:30 am. Take out side.
6:00 Feed small breakfast then go outside.
I go in the shower.
6;30 go outside again.
7:15 last time outside.

2:00- take outside.
continue hourly untill 10.

Dogstar · 05-21-2008, 04:20 PM

The schedule PROBABLY isn't the problem, but it sounds like he's very well conditioned to go in his main confined space- which is pretty normal for a puppy mill puppy.

http://dogstaracademy.wordpress.com/.../crate-soilin/
This is a link to a blog post I wrote about the issue. A big part of solving the problem in my experience is setting things up in a way that the dog can re-learn how to be clean and that being clean is preferable to lying in filth.

MarleyandMe · 05-21-2008, 06:03 PM

Thank you, for a medium sized dog like a border collie, what size pen or area would be okay?

MarleysGirl · 05-21-2008, 06:18 PM

Welcome to the forum fellow Marley lover! Can we see some pictures?

PeppersPop · 05-21-2008, 06:33 PM

If he's going to the bathroom while you are in the shower, then you need to crate him while you are in the shower. Take him out, put him in the crate, shower, and then take him out again.

Part of house/crate training is supervising your dog ALL THE TIME so that you can stop him from going in the house. If you are doing something that keeps you from watching him / rushing him out when he starts to go, then he needs to be in the crate.

I know that the trainer told you he should be able to hold it, however, that doesn't mean that he can. Has he been checked out by a vet? Urinary track infections and other bladder/kidney problems can interfere with house training. Also, dogs, like humans, have different size bladders. Most dogs might be able to hold it for that amount of time, but that's most, not all. I'm not saying that your dog has health problems or a small bladder, just wanting to point out that there is a difference between "should be able to" and "actually able to".

If your dog is peeing while you are in the shower, he needs to be in his crate or outside while you shower.

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarleyandMe

There is no possible way for me to have somebody help me take him out. I get out of school at 1:55 and the dog trainer told me that that amount of time for dogs to hold it.
I hook on his leash before he even gets out of the crate.

when we're home I go every signal and every hour.

mostly, he goes on the floor when i'm in the shower. (always take him out before shower)

I'm doing everything I can

(Edit) Here's my normal scudual with him.

5:30 am. Take out side.
6:00 Feed small breakfast then go outside.
I go in the shower.
6;30 go outside again.
7:15 last time outside.

2:00- take outside.
continue hourly untill 10.

MarleyandMe · 05-21-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarleysGirl

Welcome to the forum fellow Marley lover! Can we see some pictures?

hahaha duh, I love showing off my future agility star!!!

MarleysGirl · 05-22-2008, 12:09 AM

He is so cute!

Maggpie · 05-22-2008, 01:45 AM

Awwww! Marley is adorable! Welcome

Dogstar · 05-22-2008, 03:30 AM

If you're planning to do agility with him? Seriously, get his hips and elbows prelim'd NOW. With his background + breed, unfortunately, joint disease is a real possibility, and knowing what you're working with is a good idea.

PAWZ · 05-22-2008, 09:08 AM

Actually you dont say how old your boy is or how long you've had him but 7 hours in a crate is a long time for a baby not to potty. Definately crate if you're unable to keep an eye on him ie while in the shower.

He is very very cute evidently read that chapter in the puppy handbook several times

MarleyandMe · 05-22-2008, 09:58 AM

Mmhmm he's almost 12 weeks and I've had him for two.

I can't do anything about the time period. I get out of school in two weeks, and one of the weeks is finals, so I'ts only half days (untill like 11am) So when school is all over I'll have tons more time to spend with him. But the rest of this week and next will be hard.
So, do you think that he is going in the crate because it's too long, or because of what the other guy said because he came from a puppy mill?(again notttt happy about that.)

But yes. I am going to be doing Agility with my little guy and also flyball. The school I'm goign to is Canine Mastery in M.A (where I live) and they have the classes for it. I'm in puppy kindergarden at the moment and I'm gonig thro the corses with him and he's getting it quick there is two more puppy stadard classes before he gets his CGC then I'm off to the four week flyball and the 3 stages of agility. I've been wanting to do agility with a dog for ever. But i've always lived in an apartment and I think having a dog who loves to run is mean when you put it in something without at least a yard.
But I moved to my grandma to finish school and she's got a nice yard. And my boyfriend surprised me after a year of ranting about my love for border collies, Aussies and shelties. (don't know why I typed all that.) But I was on an annother website and they got really mean with me saying I was too young to know what a border collie needs and that I shouldn't have gotten him from a petshop. (but I didn't my boyfriend did.) so I came here.

He's got his first vet's appointment with me today so I'm goign to check up on everything and have him have his next set of shots.

He's a luvvy puppy and nothing but what i exspected from a BC :-P happy, hyper, chewing, and ready to play, lol.

Umm question, I thought you didn't want to start working a younger puppy in agility because of the developing growth plates?

PAWZ · 05-22-2008, 10:30 AM

Coming from the petshop to your house is a big transition for a baby, so give him a little bit more time. I think that you will find that the situation will remedy itsself with time and patience and you being home more. He's very young to start any kind of formal agility training, but there is loads of things you can do at home without any real equipment. The first and foremost thing is to let your baby be a baby and really develope a tight bond between the two of you. Things you can work on are your sits, downs, stays and most important RECALL. The last is the most important and can never be reinforced enough. You can also work on hand targeting, walking on different surfaces, a tippy board to get use to movement underfoot, stepping over a bar on the ground, walking on a board and stopping at the end ect. Also remember socialize socialize socialize, get him out as much as you can around as many things as you can. I wouldn't start any formal agility training until about 10 mos old and then Puppy agility kindergarten and a strong foundations class. You can start to do very low jumps (lower than elbow) at about that age but only a couple of repetitions and quit.

MarleyandMe · 05-22-2008, 10:34 AM

He's doing good with other dogs. He's got an older sister boston terrier at my boyfriends house who loves to play with her. We go to puppy playgroup at petco. and the kindergarden has playtime. ^_^ I never thought of the unbalanced serfaces. that's a great way to prepare for the teetertotter/ csaw

PAWZ · 05-22-2008, 11:25 AM

Also getting hips done at 3 mos isnt going to tell you a whole lot, wait until he's about a year. IF he comes back with a result of slight or moderate dysplasia dont dispair, many dogs go on to compete and excell in agility with dysplasia, several have had bi-lateral FHO and continued to compete. Unfortunately since he is a mill puppy there is no way of knowing what is behind him hip wise. You may get lucky, I know I did with my 1st bc (also a petstore purchase) he started competing in agility at age 2 and retired at 13.5 with very mild dysplasia, only now at age 15 are we starting to really see hip problems but the majority of it is age.

MarleyandMe · 05-22-2008, 11:36 AM

hmm if he does have it, what could be done to help him? Or is it that he just wont be able to do agility?

PAWZ · 05-22-2008, 12:31 PM

It depends on the severity of the HD there are several things you can do depending on the degree, I would however start joint suppliments Glucloseamine and Condroitin are good. If its mild HD there should be no problem at all with him doing agility, if you keep him fit and at a good weight, if its severe then there is surgery but that can be pricey. HD is caused by the "flattening" of the hip socket. Hip dysplasia results from the abnormal development of the hip joint in the young dog. It may or may not be bilateral, affecting both right and left sides. It is brought about by the laxity of the muscles, connective tissue, and ligaments that should support the joint. Most dysplastic dogs are born with normal hips but due to genetic and possibly other factors, the soft tissues that surround the joint start to develop abnormally as the puppy grows. The most important part of these changes is that the bones are not held in place but actually move apart. The joint capsule and the ligament between the two bones stretch, adding further instability to the joint. As this happens, the articular surfaces of the two bones lose contact with each other. This separation of the two bones within a joint is called subluxation and this, and this alone, causes all of the resulting problems we associate with the disease. Below are some treatments for HD:

Triple Pelvic Osteotomy (TPO): TPO is a procedure used in young dogs usually less than 10 months of age that have radiographs that show severe hip laxity, but have not developed severe damage to the joints. The procedure involves a surgical breaking of the pelvic bones and a realignment of the femoral head and acetabulum restoring the coxofemoral weight-bearing surface area and correcting femoral head subluxation. This is a major surgery and is very expensive, but the surgery has been very successful on animals that meet the requirements.Sometimes you can hear a "clicking" in the hips when a pup runs and plays, there is lameness intermittently and the pup may "bunny hop" or use rear legs simultaniously when running

Total Hip Replacement: may be the best surgical option for dogs that have degenerative joint disease as a result of chronic hip dysplasia. Total hip replacement is a salvage procedure that can produce a functionally normal joint, eliminate degenerative changes, and alleviate joint pain. The procedure involves the removal of the existing joint and replacing it with a prosthesis. To be a candidate for this procedure, the animal must be skeletally mature and is usually performed on dogs weighing at least 20 pounds. There is no maximum size limit. If both hips need to be replaced, there is a three-month period of rest recommended between the surgeries. As with the TPO surgery, this is a very expensive procedure but has had some very good results.I know several very nice bc's doing agility that have had this done and gone on to excell

Femoral Head and Neck Excision: Femoral head and neck excision is a procedure in which the head of the femur is surgically removed and a fibrous pseudo-joint forms. This procedure is considered a salvage procedure and is used in cases where degenerative joint disease has occurred and total hip replacement is not feasible. The resulting pseudo-joint will be free from pain and allow the animal to increase its activity, however, full range of motion and joint stability are decreased. For best results, the patient should weigh less than 45 pounds, however, the procedure may be performed on larger dogs.I also know of one or two that have done this and still have been competitive

Dogstar · 05-22-2008, 12:51 PM

This isn't true. A prelim done around 4 months (PennHip style) is a very valid tool. It won't tell you as much if he's borderline, but if he's really bad? It's good to know that ahead of time. And early diagnosis (and surgery if necessary) may make the difference between him being able to do agility or not. A lot of mildly dysplastic dogs do compete, but how LONG most of them compete is really variable.

You can start a dog in puppy agility classes (jumps way down, low contacts, limited impact) between 10-12 weeks. Lizzie (spitz) did a round from 9-16 weeks and we'll go back to it in a few more months to get her prepped to come out into competition right around 18 months. (She's still working at home, but needs the time off to mentally mature some and we're working on impulse control behaviors, obedience, tracking, and, oddly enough, dock jumping. :P)

PAWZ · 05-22-2008, 01:20 PM

Sorry have to totally disagree about jumping a pup at that age over any size jump, there is far too much other foundation stuff that can be done before even contemplating jumping. I have an 18 mo old bc Im not even looking at bringing out until he's two. Contacts dont have to be looked at as of yet except walking the board. Why rush? Why push? Let the baby be a dog for a while unless you are planning to be a world team member and just wow the world with your dog.

Also I said that it wasnt going to show a whole lot, a pup that bad will already be showing symptoms with intermitten lameness and pain.

Length of competition for any dog is variable, a dog with mild HD can go on to have a extremely successful agility career going on to Nationals and even world team competition