Hydroxyzine for Seizures??

Biscuit's Buddy

Hi Everyone,

I am not exactly new here, but I have not been around for a while. If you will allow me to recap briefly, I have a Beagle who was given to my family last August (on top of the one we aready had for 10 years). He has seizures, is (or at least was) on Phenobarb for them. He also has a few other problems....he nips if you wake him up suddenly (which we are dealing with), he has alergies, and itches a lot....lol...(that we are trying Fish Oil for).

Anyway, we switched Vets last week. His Phenobarb has almost run out and they would not refill it until they checked his blood levels. We were not overly happy with the Vet we were with since they really Nickel and Dime you to death on just about everything. So, this new one came at the suggestion of my wifes friend. He wants to take him off the Phenobarb due to it's long term effects on the liver (plus it makes him lathargic and we think that is what is making him very sleepy to the point if we try to move him or we wake him up he nips/bites before he realizes who we are, another thing we have learned to deal with thanks to suggestions from people on this site!!).

So, he put him on Hydroxyzine, which from what I have read, is both an anti-anxiety and an antihystimine. Does anyone have any experience with using this for seizures? Since he was on the Phenobarb, his siezures have been at a bare minimum (like maybe one in 2-3 months). He did have one about 2 1/2 weeks to 3 weeks ago, but that was the last one I remember in a long long time. Now, after going to the Vet on Friday, and starting this new medication, he had one yesterday.

Also, the Vet never said anything about slowly weening him off the Phenobarb (like they normally do with people) and slowly starting him on the Hydroxyzine. And, since starting the Hydroxyzine, he has these tremors or shakes while he is sitting there. Not really so mich when he is laying down and sleeping, but while he is sitting there or laying there. I KNOW that in people, you HAVE to slowly ween them off Phenobarb and shakes is a side effect of being without it. I don't mind switching him, as long as we can do it slowly and take the time that I think he needs to get weened off of it.

I KNOW that the Hydroxysine will help in the coming months, we are going to be adding on an addition to our house and it will certainly help him cope with all the people being there and making the noise and all, but I still think we NEED to ween him slowly. That is my only complaint about this vet is the lack of instruction.

So, please, if anyone has any suggestions, comments, helpful tips, etc. I'd really love to hear them!! Even to just ease my troubled mind about my little buddy!!

Thanks to all who read this......Biscuit's Buddy!!

Poly

Hydroxyzine (Atarax/Vistaril ) is an antihistamine and a mild tranquilizer.

It is the same medication that is used for humans - just in a dog dose.

If you have questions about your dogs' treatments, you should be asking your veterinarian for the information directly.

In dogs, tremors are a potential side effect from hydroxyzine and really you should have been told that if you notice them to report back to your vet because it could be an indication of an overdose.

Vets are like any other doctors - some don't communicate much and some act as if the people they deal with are dummies. Let's be charitable and say that maybe their experiences lead them to those conclusions.

You just have to work so you will get the level of information you will feel comfortable with.

Biscuit's Buddy

Thanks Poly. What I find funny is that there are tons of medications that they use on Dogs that they use on Humans. I never really made the connection. My sister-in-law is a Pediatric ER Dr. and she told me that if you don't bring people down off of Phenobarb slowly that shakes are a side effect as well.
Trust me when I say, I plan on talking to the Vet. Actually, my wife took the dog and she is supposed to call him. Of course, a small problem called "Life" gets in the way sometimes!! I am at work, she is at work, etc. I do ask questions until I am satisified, and thanks for reminding me that it IS okay to do so, sometimes I lose sight of that fact, we pay their salaries and we should be able to ask as much as we want!!
At the same time though, until I get to talk to him (or she gets to) relying on the experiences of those here on this forum really help to "calm the nerves" when I have questions, you know??
Anyway, thanks for the reply, it helps!!.....

John Bono

I used to have seizures, and FWIW, there were two other drugs I took besides the ones you mentioned, tegretol and dilantin, and they may be available for dogs as well. Dilantin hits the liver pretty hard in humans(don't know about dogs), but I tolerated tegretol pretty well. Neither caused drowsiness in myself, as far as I remember. You might want to ask the vet about those drugs as well.

animalcraker

Phenobarb needs to be slowy weaned off for dogs and can be extreemly dangerous if you stop it cold turkey. I've never heard of hydroxizine being used to help with seizures, all the vets I work with use it as an anti-histamine, you could try calling other vets to see what their take is on it. And yes most long term meds can cause damage to the internal organs, but that's the whole point of doing the blood work every 6 months to a year. The vets are suposed to be using the test to make sure your pet is getting the right dose and monitor any organ damage at the same time. If your pet was doing fine on the Pheno and wasn't having and liver damage then I don't see why he would want to make such a sudden change. As the other poster said you should really be asking the vet these questions or finding a vet that you are more confident and comfortable with.

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Shalva

I have a dog with seizures......
phenobarbital is the first line because it stops the seizures and works fast.... yes it does have long term impact on the liver

potassium bromide is the second stop for dogs with seizures.....

I have never heard of using hydroxazine or however that is spelled

AND I AM very upset that your vet didn't have you wean down the phenobarb.....
that is very very dangerous and could send your dog right into status....

I understand that your old vet nickel and dimed you BUT he had the seizures under control....

ugghhhh this really upsets me.....

there is an excellent email list for seizure active dogs.... called epil-k9
the link is in my epilepsy thread in the health section .....

not to go against your vet but I totally would get that pup back on the phenobarb asap......
the fact that he had a seizure already means that he needs the pheno to prevent the seizures.....

then if you are uncomfortable with your vet then I would suggest finding veterinary neurologist to handle your pups epilepsy and use the new vet if you trust them for everything else

however, just pulling a dog off of pheno (I know its not your fault) is a huge huge huge problem..... and is very dangerous..... depending on the dosage he is getting you lower slowly over a period of about 6 weeks.....

but many dogs need the phenobarb...... I know my cuinn seizes without the phenobarb..... we have tried the weaning thing, it has never worked for him

I have this epilepsy theory, if it ain't broke don't fix it .... in other words if the seizure are controlled then don't mess wtih the meds.

I will have more thoughts once I get over being upset by that
s

Biscuit's Buddy

Hi Shalva,

Okay, I am upset too, more anxious and probably scared than mad right now. He has not been off the Phenobarb totally. Since I know enough to NOT totally remove them cold-turkey, I have been alternating his Hydroxyzine in the AM and Phenobarb in the PM. Since I read your posting, I went in and gave him a half of a Pheno for now, and I will give him the other half tonight. I am waiting on a call from the Vet now, I called a little while ago, seems my wife has already beaten me to it. But, he does not do his call backs until after 7:30 (EDT), so I have to wait 3 more hours to hear what it up. It is quite possible that my wife might not have told him that we are almost out of Phenobarb, or she did and he did not hear her. Who knows?? I know that the Vet DID say that if the Hydroxyzine did not work, he'd put him back on Phenobarb, so when he calls, I am going to make my wishes known!! It's a lousy, nasty, rainy here, so Biscuit is just being his normal self and laying around sleeping. I don't know how he is reacting to it because this is how he always is when it is this way outside. Plus, given his age (which I think is about 11-13, somewhere in there), I'd rather not mess with changing drugs now.

Thanks for your help, advise and concern. I hope that this has no ill effect on him since I never took him off of it to begin with. I'd still love to hear your thoughts more. Thanks....Walter

Shalva

can you tell me how long he has been on the pheno??? about .... because to be honest considering his age.... I would put him back on the pheno and leave it alone if it is working the reality is that he is an old guy and will probably run off to join the circus before the pheno can do him any real harm unless his liver is already compromised then I would do a week of milk thistle and that should help clear out the liver

please let me know what the vet says unfortunately i have alot of experience with this.....
s

Biscuit's Buddy

Shalva,

Well, if memory serves (without going into the paperwork drawer...lol) I am thinking it has been since October. See, like I said, we got him in August and it was in August or Sept. that we found out he had seizures (I knew because my old Poodle used to get them too). So, I am thinking that we took him to the first vet in Oct. and got him on it. I was thinking the exact same thing and when he calls tonight, I want to ask him that as well. He is now up and running around playing with our other Beagle, so who knows. I KNOW on rainy days like today, all he does is lay around and be lazy (something I wish I could certainly do!!), and at about 5:45-6:15 he gets his old lazy bones up and stretches and starts getting active. He is also caged all day, so I don't worry about him if he does have a seizure that he is going to fall off the couch or something. The last time they tested him, which was in January I think, his liver was fine, so I am thinking about asking him to just leave him on it. Also, I was talking to my wife, since she was the one who took him, and she doesn't remember how he told her or what he told her in terms of the medications. She said that he could have told her to just continue him with his medications, adding in the Hydroxyzine for his alergies, until today when they talk. So, we'll see in a bit when he calls. I will post you tomorrow and let you know. Thanks again for the input and the concern!!....Walter

Biscuit's Buddy

Shalva,

Okay, well I am happy to say that things were just a mere misunderstanding. It seems that that Hydroxyzine was only for his alergies and itching, NOT to replace his Phenobarb. What he said was that we were to continue his medication as the same rate until they had finished running his blood work, then they would make a determination as to what doseage to continue to give him. When he called back last night, he was very happy to report that his Liver has had NO EFFECT what-so-ever from the Phenobarb. His blood levels with the Phenobarb were at the extreme low end of the scale, so if need be, we CAN up his doseage. I told him that we were satisified with the way it was helping him for now, and that he has only had maybe 2-3 since Oct., so we were not going to change it. But, he wants us to keep a record of them if/when they happen, the severity and duration, just so that if we need to increase the doseage, we have a record. After talking with him, I am satisfied that he IS a good & caring Vet. He also did say that IF he wanted us to change his medications, he would have carefully explained things to us. So, I believe that his seizure on Sunday was mainly due to us making that change in his medications, but we are going to watch him. Since it was only 1 1/2 days change in his med.'s, he said that he doubts there was any effect on him at all. Plus, last night he was up, running around and playing, back to his normal everyday self!!

Anyway, thanks again for the advise and the help, it is really most appreciated.....Walter

Shalva

I am glad to hear it was a misunderstanding

one thing that I will say though is that many dogs especially if they are at the low end of the pb spectrum need to have their medication..... or they will seize so even missing one dose of pb can cause a dog to seize as it does my cuinn..... cuinn seizes once about every 9 or 10 mos.... and he clusters so once he seizes once he will seize repeatedly in the 24 hour period.....

his last seizure was because I missed his morning dose of medication ......

so keeping the pb regular is very important and I disagree wtih your vet in this area..... if you had stopped even one dose that could precipitate a seizure especially if levels are on the low side.....

none the less.... I am glad it was a misunderstanding.... and all is forward ho.
s

Biscuit's Buddy

Shalva,

Well, so far so good. He is all back to normal and back to his normal old self. I knew when I was talking to him that missing the dosage did not help him. The vet did not say it would NOT affect him at all (meaning that he agreed that the seizure was probably due to the missed doseages), but that it would not hurt him overall in the long run, and getting him right back on it was a good thing. Sorry about that, I somtimes in typing get my words mixed up. It's almost like my fingers are talking and I am slurring my words....lol.

I posed this question to the Vet, and he I'm not too sure what his answer was...lol....so I will ask you (and anyone else out there who wants to lend an answer). Our two side fences, which are 6' high stockage fences, border on two people who have dogs. One, who has 2 and grooms and boards them, the other who has a son and a friend who occasionally bring them over. The one who grooms and boards them, Biscuit (the male Beagle who seizes) will go out and play/bark/run the fence line with the neighbors dog (and sometimes dogs that she boards) on the other side of the fence. He loves this!! I will even call her up and ask her when she is getting boarders so that I know he will have fun doing this. At times he will even stand there with his nose right up against the fence, looking thru the cracks in the stockades, over into the other yard. It's cute to watch. Anyway, my question to the Vet was, will excessive heat (now that we are into spring and heading for summer) and excessive running out in the heat, bring on a seizure?? The one he had (back before the PB mixup) seemed like it might have been brought on by that. Either that or it was just coincidence...?? The Vet seemed to think that just about ANY change in their environment and normal routine could potentially bring one on, but I'd really like to think that just might be specualtion and not really the case. Cause if it is, this is going to be one hum-dinger of a summer!! See my daughter comes home from school (well, until June anyway) by 3:20 and I get home at 4:00. She will sometimes let him and the female Beagle we have out and then wait for them to go to the bathroom, check out their domain and come back into the house. He will usually stay out longer than the female, and then she shuts the door and goes into her room, onto her computer, turns on the TV and the music and forgets he is out there. On cooler days, and even warmer ones, he loves to lay on the back deck and bask in the sun. But there are days when I come home and he has been laying out there and he is now panting and feels warm/hot to the touch (mostly cause he is covered in black hair on about 70% of his body, so he is GOING to feel warm/hot), but what I am afraid of is that his being in the sun too much and excessive activity might bring one on for him. So, I was just wondering. Also, we are putting an addition on this summer/fall and with people working in the back yard and eventually connecting to the house, I KNOW that the female will be going crazy. He will be at first and then could care less!!...lol. So, again, I was just wondering, given your experience with PB and seizures, you might have a good grasp of this.

Thanks again. My peace of mind and my stress/anxiety levels than you too!! I never knew that animals (in this case dogs) could get to you so much as to cause this much stress and anxiety in life!!...lol. They are worse than kids sometimes!!..lol. But thanks again, I REALLY appreciate it......Walter

Shalva

I agree wtih your vet.... couple things.... epi-dogs are notoriously unable to control their body temperatures well.... so it is not unlikely that your dog will get overheated really quckly.... mine does and many others do as well you really have to watch the heat with them....

any type of stress ..... I mean any stress (think dog stress not people stress) can bring on a seizure.... that means if you leave your pup at the kennel for a few days that can bring on a seizure.... so getting overheated is stress on the body and can absolutely bring on a seizure..... I do agree with your vet....

S

Biscuit's Buddy

Shalva,

Another question if you don't mind....Have you ever heard of or used "Quiet Moments"? It is available on 1800Petmeds.com as well as at PetCo and PetSmart. It is used for calming dogs down and relieveing tension. I guess with the Hydroxyzine though (since it is an antihystimine and anxiety reliever) I should avoid things that will make him more relaxed and sleepy huh??

He is weird at times, and at times I don't understand him. Days when it is rainy and nasty, he usually crashes either in his bed or on the floor/on the couch. Most of the time he is just a lazy-bag-o'-bones when it is like that outside (like I am sure we'd all love to be). But, on days it is nice out, sunny and dry, he is usually and "up-and-at-'em" kind of dog. But then for some reason, that might switch. Like yesterday, it was rainy here, and he was all happy and excited to see me when I came home from work. Today, it's nice and sunny, and he is all mopey and tired. I guess I should stop reading too much into things and just accept that he is the way he is and that's it, huh??

I am also concerned that we are going away for the weekend next weekend, from Thursday afternoon till Sunday afternoon, and that will be a stress on him. Both dogs are staying home and we have people coming to stay here to watch them. The female Beagle has arthritis in her rear right leg, so she can't really climb stairs. He is not good at listening and not good in the car (gets all anxious and nervous), and we are driving 5 hours away to the mountains up to our cabin in the woods. So, it's better for them to stay put here in their own environment. But, like I said, I just worry that even THAT little change of us not being around will bring on a seizure(s). I know that these people must be told to watch him and all, and hopefully they will be okay. DO you think I should up his PB doesage a little bit?..>Walter

heidiann

I'm not Shalva, but I have an epileptic dog.

I wouldn't mess with his PB at all personally. It will probably make him more out of it if you do.

Do the people who will be watching the dogs while you're gone know what to do in case your dog has a seizure? If not, I'd definitely leave them detailed instructions and the number to your vet/and possibly an emergency vet nearby.

Topaz is on PB and Kbr, and I agree with alot of what Shalva has said. She's helped me greatly since I started posting here!! We also have topaz on Taurine and a joint supplement and we give him Melatonin at night because for a long time his seizures were ONLY at night...but he's had them at different times now.

For stress/thunderstorms/fireworks...we give him Rescue Remedy. I know it helped our cats with stress and some sites do recommend giving dogs the breyers vanilla ice cream mixed with rescue remedy right after a seizure. We try to give him rescue remedy after he has a seizure and I keep forgetting to buy the ice cream! I put some in his food this morning because we're having people over tonight for a BBQ and he hasn't been around a lot of people since last summer. We don't have company often. And this year's been hard with his seizures. We try to keep the stress levels at a minimum...key word is try lol

Do you keep a journal? If not, you should...you *may* see patterns and might be able to find triggers. I gave up on triggers...I can't figure out why Topaz seizes. I was really stressed about why for so long, but now we're just enjoying the pup. The journal I keep for Topaz is a blog and the link is in my signature. I update it whenever he goes to the vet, has a seizure or something weird happens. We also have a calendar on the fridge that we write down what time he gets his meds and also some notes...like he got into the trash 2x this month, so I wrote that there. I have the dogs on a raw diet, and some foods can trigger seizures, so we keep track of things like that.

Biscuit's Buddy

Heidiann,

I am starting a journal for him. It's not that he seizes all that often, like I posted in recent posts, it's maybe been somewhere between 2-4 times since we had him on phenobarb. I only noticed once since we got him that he had one after running around outside in the sun. So, I don't know. It could have been coincidence and it could have been due to it. As far as I know, he has never clustered, and the closest that I remember them ever being to each other was like 2 weeks (up until this last time when we misunderstood the vet and I cut his med.'s in half).

When I was a lot younger and I got married to my first wife, she HAD to have a Poodle. Well, after she decided she didn't want to be married to me anymore, she also decided that she couldn't take the Poodle to her new apartment. So, needless to say, I got her. After she was about 5 or 6, she started having seizures, and hers were at night too. That scared the living heck out of me waking up to seeing her having one. After a while I got used to it, but for months and months I could not sleep well. Also, after a while, she decided that she wanted to go and live in my grandmothers room (when she moved into my parents house), and so I never really had to deal with it much. The vet I was seeing never put her on anything for them and they slowed to almost non-existent and she eventually was put down at 16 years old.

As far as I can tell, Biscuit has no "triggers" that I have seen evidence of, only that one time running in the heat. But, we have only had him since last August, so this summer will tell. Plus, us going away next weekend and the addition we are putting on this summer/fall will tell as well. My other Beagle is more of a "scardy-cat" than Biscuit is. He has only flinched once at a loud noise, and that was a clap of thunder. I cut the grass, I cut wood with my chain saw, etc and he is not bothered by it at all. His hearing is great, he can hear me open the frig. door 2 rooms away!!...lol.

I have no idea of what the "sitters" know and don't, but I plan on leaving very detailed instructions for them on his med.'s, numbers, etc. The lady that lives next door to us that grooms dogs is very good with him, and she will be home all weekend long too, so if there are any problems, they can go to her. Plus, I think that she is going to look in on them periodically during the 3 days we are gone just to make sure that they are okay.

Anyway, thanks for the info., it is always great to hear from people and their experiences with dogs, it helps to know that things are really more "normal" than you'd think!!...>Walter

PeppersPop

I know I'm responding a little late but just wanted to share.

I am wondering if perhaps the tremors/shakes you saw and attributed to the Atarax(hydroxyzine) were some type of seizure activity. There are many types of seizures and not all involve the full body shaking/jerking that come with a grand mal seizure. I can't find it now, but earlier this weekend I was researching refractory epilepsy and came across a case study about someone who presented to the ER with shaking/tremors in his arms/legs that went away when he sat or laid down. It turned out that it was related to his seizure disorder.

Medications in the benzodiazepines (valium, xanax, klonopin) family are used for both anxiety and seizures, but Atarax is not in this family and probably would not do much to prevent seizures, although I could see how it might be useful if your dog was very agitated after seizures.

Pepper has a lot of problems with itching. I have to keep an eye on him all the time because he will lick and scratch his belly until it's got sores and also nibbles/bites his paws/legs. After trying several natural/herbal products and benadryl, I have found that one dose of Atarax at bedtime plus spot treatments with an over-the-counter topical hydrocortisone spray keeps Pepper a lot more comfortable. He does not like spray bottle so I pour a little bit of the hydrocortisone spray into my hand and rub it on wherever I see him scratching and it works wonders. I was giving him Benadryl at least twice a day and he was still pretty itchy, so I am very pleased with the Atarax and only needing it once a day.

Good Luck to you!



[quote=Biscuit's Buddy;290782]Hi Everyone,

I am not exactly new here, but I have not been around for a while. If you will allow me to recap briefly, I have a Beagle who was given to my family last August (on top of the one we aready had for 10 years). He has seizures, is (or at least was) on Phenobarb for them. He also has a few other problems....he nips if you wake him up suddenly (which we are dealing with), he has alergies, and itches a lot....lol...(that we are trying Fish Oil for).

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