a SIMPLE breeding question

xochanelox · 11-20-2006, 05:41 PM

i'm only 18, a first time dog owner, i have a 7 monthz male shih tzu and a 2 months female shih-poo (3/4 shih tzu and 1/4 poodle mix) First of all i hope no one take this as a joke since i'm only 18, but i'm a devoted dog lover who's trying her best to take of the dogs. Anyways my question is regarding breeding, i've read some of the forum and it seems as though this is taken very seriously. Since i have a male and a female when will they "go at it" and should i prevent that or let nature do it's thing. I want to breed so i'm willing to learn from the start, so please don't be so harsh its simply a question

Curbside Prophet · 11-20-2006, 06:19 PM

Well, you've done something that most irreputable breeders don't do, and that's ask the question. So for that I commend you. IMO, you should have your dogs neutered and spayed before the female goes into heat, and I believe if I'm not mistaken, the first cycle is anywhere between 6 and 12 months. Breeding mixes is never a good idea and unethical in my mind. Only if the dogs are great examples of their breed should they be considered for breeding. What's a great example of the breed? The best place to start learning about breeding and breed standards is at an AKC sponsored event. Speak to handlers and breeders about your decision, and ask them how they decided on their career. The first question many will ask is, why do you want to become a breeder? Money reasons, for the fun of reasons should never cross your mind. There is a specific reason reputable breeders breed, and it's to preserve the breed standard as set by the AKC...if you are in America. Anything short of this, well, is irresponsible breeding, especially considering all the homeless dogs in shelters and rescues. And by breeding mixes, you'd only be contributing to the problem. So, have those little one's spayed and neutered as recommended by your vet. So, you need to find a mentor! Where would I start? Contact your local purebred rescue. They may have many reputable breeders in your area who they can recommend and are willing to guide you through the breeding process. I'm sure there are other suggestions, so please take them all under consideration before ever deciding to breed. Someone once said in this forum that if you need to ask about breeding, your years away from being ready to breed. there's so much truth to that statement that I hope you soon will learn. My apology to whoever said that, I wish to give you credit. Good luck, and thanks for asking.

Keno's Mom · 11-20-2006, 07:48 PM

Smaller breeds come into maturity early. Don't be surprised if your females come into heat by 6 months old. IMO you have way too many mixed breeds already without purposely breeding MORE mixed breed dogs.

Breeding SHOULD be taken seriously! You only want to breed the best examples of a breed and you should prove your dogs in the show ring (champion) or field trials. Take a trip down to your local shelter and see how many dogs are sitting in there right now from people letting their dogs have one litter. Ask them HOW MANY are put down every month?

Then go home and arrange for every one of your dogs to be neutered and spayed. If you want more dogs, adopt from the shelter - don't be creating more mixed breed dogs.

MomOf7 · 11-22-2006, 11:26 AM

I second with both replies!
Here is a link to information for those thinking about breeding.
http://www.itb.it/canaan/icdca/Breeders/facts.htm

all4thedogs · 11-22-2006, 07:00 PM

I agree, please have your dogs altered, and start researching. Thankfully you started asking before you bred you dogs, THANK YOU.

foxywench · 11-23-2006, 11:22 AM

first off, theres NO such thing as a SIMPLE breeding question...
but i do thank you for asking first!

now i have no doubt your dogs are beautiful and fun and just the sweetest things on the planet....
but unless there show dogs, they are simply that, you babies, your pets...
and because of that i would make an apointment with your vet to have both neutered/spayed at 6 months of age. (especially your shi tzu poodle mix, there are enough mixes in the world, responsible breeders DO NOT breed mixed breeds)

now your obviously very interested in breeding, when done properly its an admirable cause because responsible breeding is all about keeping the breeds we love alive and well.
my first suggestion is to start attending some dog shows...if you have no AKC events close by, i suggest looking for you local breed clubs, attend all and every show you can, not to show your dogs but instead to see what show dogs LOOK like. Confirmation is 100% important when breeding. confirmation is about finding dogs that look like the breed there supposed to look like.
now while your there take the time to talk to handlers and breeders, your goal, find a breeder locally, a RESPONSIBLE RESPECTABLE breeder, your looking for someone to aprentice under. someone who is iwlling to show you the ropes, teach you HOW to breed properly, they will teach you how to handle the dogs in the ring, how to spot faults, how to track lines, read pedigrees, how to pair dogs up for breeding. they will teach you genetics and breeder ethics.
my suggestion is to aprentice under an expereicned breeder for at least 2 years, they will usually help you in junior handling, even letting you handle their dogs, they will teach you and you will be able to assist in the breeding, pregnancy, birthing and aftercare of a couple of their litters.
the breeder will teach you what sighns to look for during the birth that could indicate a trip to an emergency vet.
youll also learn very quickly that breeding is hard, messy EXPENSIVE rules...
Repuatable, responsible breeders DO NOT make money on thier litters, when you add the cost of genetic testing, show feas, vet care for the mother and pups...not to mention if the mother has difficulty and a c-section, a litter could cost you over $4000, a responsible breeder will push the fact that if your breeding right you wont be making ANY money!
youll also learn failry quickly that with breeding come heartaches, the mothers can easily have difficulty, you can lose the female during the birth, often times there will be a runt in the litter which will be too weak to survive, sometimes entire litters are lost...sometimes a breeder will lose the mother and the puppies. sometimes youll have to bottle feed every 2 hours, sometimes more for the weaker pups.
as i said, you wont get paid for this...this is vonlunteer work, but its a well worth step because it will help you avoid many of the downfalls new breeders get into. some breeders will give their aprentice a puppy from a litter to continue on with their breeding when they move off alone. the other nice thing about assisting a breeder is once you strike out on your own the breeder is usually more than happy to help you out if you need it, to be on the end of the phone during that first 3am litter and your paniking...

now once youve given a breeder your 2 years (during this time youll also be doing as much reaserch as humanly possible on your own too) youll have to find your female, now sometimes your breeder will give you one, sometimes theyll give you a discount...sometimes theyl tell you who they suggest getting one from (belive me having another breeder as a frined REALY helps because you can use their lines ot better your own too!)
either way youll have to use your newly aquired eye ot pick a nice female, youll learn how to spot breed faults. then youll want to start her in training for the showring. Youll need to show her as close to championship as possible, see what the judges think of her, is she "worthy" of breeding confirmation wise. during this time youll also want to have her temperment tested, i personally reccomend basic obedience all the way through the canine good citizen test...your breeding female should have a great temperment as well as look like she should.

ok so she about a year old, shes doing well in the ring, you know her minor faults and its time to start looking into studs for her to mate with next year...your keeping your eyes out at shows and have had a few breeders aproach you about studding to your female, you have to find the best match, genetic, physical and tempermental for your girl...he should have strong good points that counteract any minor faults you girl has. He too should be of sound confirmation and temperment.

Skip some time here, shes now almost 2 yrs old, shes only a few points away from her title., shes cgc certified and has been working as a therapy dog, shes due to come into heat in about 3 months (you should NEVER breed a female before shes 2 years old!) so its time to go off to the vet, shell need her eyes, hips, knees heart and thyroid all independantly tested, this costs money! youll also shell out for an x-ray to make sure her pelvis is going to be wide enough to carry the litter.
during this time your stud of choice will also be getting health tested!

only after all this we now know your female is of good confirmation, great temperment and now 100% healthy beyond just a physical.
only after al that can you consider ready to breed...
course it doesnt end there but its a start

i hope this helps, if you have any extra questions dont hesitate, ive been involved in showing and breeding chihuahuas since i was 5...

drfong · 11-23-2006, 09:02 PM

Hi, thanks for asking. I'll add my opinion and remember it just that. The mix certianly does not need to breed and as others have said she is way to young at her first heat anyway. That said they will go at it and she will get pregnant if you don't do something. You didn't say much about the male. Is he registered. Did you get it from a reputable breeder or somewhere else. If you got him from a good breeder they probably made you sign a nueter contract or atleast a non-breed contract. Does it have a limited registration or open? If you don't know than the dog is not stud material no mater what it looks like. If you are only going to have 1 done, than get the bitch spayed before she goes into heat. Most vets will do it at 6 months, but be careful incase she starts before that. If you know where she came from and the person who has her mother knows, typically the pups will be similar to mom. This is not a guarantee, just an estimate. It is also better for the female to be spayed before first heat to reduce the chances of some cancers. (thats a whole different debate in the health section). That will give you time to see if the pure breed male is show ring worthy. If you can have him looked at by someone who really knows the breed they may be able to tell you right now that he is only a pet quality dog. Than you could just go ahead and get them both fixed and not worry about it. I personally don't like to nueter a male until it reaches maturity, so I would get the female done as soon as the vet can (about 6 months) and wait with the male until he is mature based on your dogs breed developement. Not all dogs mature in the same time frame. Again this is my opinion and I'm sure people will start giving me ahard time about not telling you to do them both as soon as possible, but like I said its my oppinion. Good luck

Whitney · 11-24-2006, 11:18 AM

I just have a point to add... I have always wanted to breed dogs as well, I think that it would be wonderful to work with the dogs (in show and out), and to work with other people in the trade. I'm only 20, and since you are 18 there isn't much of an age difference between us. Currently, I own three mixed breeds all are rescue dogs that are spayed and neutered. At the moment, I don't have the money or the space and materials to breed dogs, nor do I have the time and effort to commit as I am a full time student. It would be unfair to the breeding dogs, and the puppies, and my other three as well. But... to my point, I am taking a biology course, first year, and it's touched up on genetics to the point that it would be very helpful for a breeder. Second year, and other courses like Zoology also mingle in genetics, and I think that if I do end up breeding in the future that this information will be very helpful when considering phenotype (physical appearance) and anything to do with the genetics of the dogs and puppies. Not just what physical appearances might show up, but with genetic diseases and traits passed down from the mother or father or from their mother and father as well.

If you want to breed, seriously... if you are going to go to school, take some Biology courses. I have learned so much about food, breeding, diseases and so much more just from this course. You can apply a lot of it to daily life, and the life of your pets. You don't need this information to breed of course, but I feel that it gives me a scientific edge.

Jessica&Crew · 11-28-2006, 08:01 AM

If you want to breed dogs, I would not start with creating mixed breeds.

What is yur reasoning behing wanting to breed them?

If its for the money, you need to reconsider. Go to the main forum and read about Hope, and the huge expense her breeder is putting into her to save her life after a freak accident.

If you want to breed dogs to better the breed, you need to figure out what breed you'll want to concentrate on, and start researching reputable breeders and vets that will specialize in the care of your breed of choice.

nicole84 · 11-28-2006, 06:53 PM

I highly agree with the opions of most the people here and that is have them spayed and nuetered.We do not need anymore unwanted litters being born.I really don't understand why you are wanting to breed them in the first place.Mix breed are not meant to be breed.So please rethink your plan on breeding them and just get them fixed.