Explanation of "Heat"

atldoglover · 11-14-2006, 03:25 PM

The first cockapoo that I ever owned, we spayed at 6 months. However, this go round, we are getting a boy and a girl (CKC registered) so that we can breed once. Since I have never dealt with this before, can someone please explain how often a dog goes through heat and what the ramifications are. I was told by the breeder that I am getting the puppies from that we had to wait 2 years before breeding, so I just want to be totally informed. Thanks in advance,

blackgavotte · 11-14-2006, 04:17 PM

Do I understand that you are getting a boy and girl cockapoo with CKC papers? Please verify that info first and then we can talk some more.

blackrose · 11-14-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgavotte

Do I understand that you are getting a boy and girl cockapoo with CKC papers? Please verify that info first and then we can talk some more.

I think the Continental(sp) Kennel Club (the puppy mill registry) is now registering mutts.....

To the OP: Why do you want to breed your two dogs in the first place?

Curbside Prophet · 11-14-2006, 04:58 PM

The Canadian Kennel Club does not recognize "cockapoo" as a breed. If your dog is registered with the "Continental Kennel Club", or the "Cockapoo Kennel Club", or the "Call-us-crap Kennel Club", you should not breed this dog...IMO. I don't mean to be rude to you, I'm sure you are a very nice person...my statements are for anyone reading this thread, but I see breeding mixes or mixed breeding is a problem to all the homeless dogs living in shelters and rescues. But again, this is only my opinion.

blackgavotte · 11-14-2006, 05:03 PM

I was waiting for clarification " just in case " I assumed incorrectly. Then I was going to " Have at 'er " and glad to see I don't have to.

atldoglover · 11-15-2006, 12:36 PM

No disrespect taken- I am an adult, and I realize everyone has their own opinion, just as I have mine. In MY opinion, cockapoos just like other breeds long ago are trying to become an "official" breed. Whether you agree with that or not, is up to you. My dog, Raven- was a cockapoo. I had her spayed at six months. She died last month. The one heartbreak that me and my family has is that we don't have any babies from her. She was sold to us as a companion pet. This time, I am purchasing a boy and girl to breed them, not for sale, for my family and myself. That is why I posted the original question about heat.

blackrose · 11-15-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atldoglover

No disrespect taken- I am an adult, and I realize everyone has their own opinion, just as I have mine. In MY opinion, cockapoos just like other breeds long ago are trying to become an "official" breed. Whether you agree with that or not, is up to you. My dog, Raven- was a cockapoo. I had her spayed at six months. She died last month. The one heartbreak that me and my family has is that we don't have any babies from her. She was sold to us as a companion pet. This time, I am purchasing a boy and girl to breed them, not for sale, for my family and myself. That is why I posted the original question about heat.

I'll stay off my soap box about how mix breeds (mutts, mongrels, etc) shouldn't be bred, and I'll just consentrate on responsible breeding.

The first question I'd like to ask you is this: Do you plan to do health screening on your two Cocker/Poodle mixes?
Second question: are you willing to keep up to seven puppies? If not, how will you go about finding them homes?

And since I'm at lack of words for the moment, please take the time to read this article. It shouldn't answer some of your questions:

Quote:

Many people think that breeding dogs is easy. However, the reality is quite different.

I often have people email me who want to breed, and invariably their bitch has just come into season, and they want to breed without having the skills or the knowledge. At best, this is careless. If your bitch is in season, and you are asking questions now, then do NOT breed her. Wait until you are properly trained and mentored.

If you do not have the competencies required to facilitate the breeding of your bitch, the raising of puppies, and the placement of puppies, it is irresponsible and unethical to breed until you have.

As a starting point, if you can answer the following questions, then you'll be well on the track to being ready to breed. If you can't answer 90% of these, don't even bother attempting to breed until you can:

Setting yourself up right

What does dog conformation refer to?
How can you test if my dog has the correct conformation?
What important points should be considered on a dog's pedigree?
How many championships should be listed in a pedigree prior to breeding?

The beginning of the season

When will a bitch first come into season?
Should a bitch be bred on her first season?
How old should a bitch be before breeding commences?
On what grounds should a bitch not be bred from?
On what days is a bitch fertile?
How long is a bitch's season?

Breeding the dogs

On what day's should a bitch be bred?
What is a studmaster and when should they be used?
On what attributes is a stud dog selected?
What health testing should both the dam and dog have prior to breeding?
How old should a dog be before he is used at stud?
What are the responsibilities of a stud dog owner?
What are the important contract items to have in a breeding contract?
On what grounds should a dog be neutered?
What diseases can a dog get while being bred?
When should a dog be allowed near an in season bitch?
How does the breeding actually take place?
Does there need to be a tie for a breeding to have taken place?
What is AI and when should it be conducted?
Who should conduct the AI and what specific precautions should be taken?
Why is the stud dog turned during a breeding?
How many times should a bitch be bred?
Can a litter have more than one father?
Where must a bitch be kept while she is in season?

Gestation

How long is a bitch's gestation?
What special diet should the bitch be fed while in season, and while pregnant?
Under what special circumstances should additional calcium be fed to a pregnant bitch?

Whelping

What are the signs that a bitch is going into labour?
What is the best type of whelping box arrangements?
Where should the bitch be when she whelps?
What are the signs that the whelping is going well?
What are the signs that there are problems developing?
When should a c-section be performed?
What is primary inertia and the implications?
What is secondary inertia and the implications?
What is oxytocin?
When should the vet be called for help?
Should calcium be administered during whelping?
What does green fluid indicate?
How long should it take for a bitch to whelp?
What is the incidence of puppy deaths in each litter?
What is a breach birth, how often does it happen, and what are the problems that can result?
What are the implications for a pup born out of the sac?
How do you ensure that each placenta is accounted for, and what do you do if they are not?
What should be done with the placenta?
How do you resuscitate a dead puppy?
How do you clear fluid from a puppy's lungs?
How many extra set of hands should you have at a c-section?
When should oxygen be administered to puppies?
When should puppies first fed from the dam?
How do you check for cleft palate?
How are puppies who are deformed managed?

Caring for the mother

What should the dam be fed while she is looking after puppies?
What are the signs of infection in the bitch?

Caring for puppies

What are the signs that the puppies are progressing well?
What are the signs that the puppies are in trouble?
What is mastisis and how is it treated?
What do you do if the dam's milk does not come in?
How do you bottle feed a puppy, and what do you use?
How do you tube feed a puppy?
How can you tell if a puppy is feeding well?
How can you tell if a pup has received enough milk?
How can you check to see if a pup is dehydrated?
What is fading puppy syndrome and how do you rescue a puppy from it?
What are the common problems to be aware of when raising the puppies?
When do you introduce "real food" to puppies?
Why should puppies never be given "baby food"?
Why should puppies not be given grains to eat?
Should puppies be vaccinated?
Should puppies be wormed?
Under what conditions should a puppy be culled and how?
Under what conditions should a puppy be wormed and/or vaccinated?

Placing puppies

How do you choose puppy buyers?
What responsibilities do you have as a breeder for those pups?
What sort of guarantees are you going to offer the buyers?
How do you ensure your puppy buyers are going to look after the puppies?
When and how do you temperament test puppies?
How do you match the right puppy with the right person?
When do you remove the dam from the puppies?
When should the puppies be totally weaned?
How are puppies house trained?
When are puppies first socialised and how?
What sort of puppy pack information are you going to provide to the buyers?
When do you start training the puppies?
What breeder support are you offering once the puppies have gone?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You'll find the answers to these questions from gaining loads of experience under the careful guidance of a mentor before you breed yourself. Please do not e-mail me for the answer to these questions, if your serious about becoming a responsible / ethical breeder then learn the answers rather than looking for that quick way around.

My sincere thanks to Jane Johnson for her hard work in putting this excellent list of our thoughts together.

atldoglover · 11-15-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackgavotte

I was waiting for clarification " just in case " I assumed incorrectly. Then I was going to " Have at 'er " and glad to see I don't have to.

By the way, I really AM a nice person- a teacher, in fact. You don't need to "have at me". That's not called for.

blackrose · 11-15-2006, 04:06 PM

blackrose · 11-15-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

In my opinion~

Puppies need more than just five minutes of your undivided attention.

Puppies need to be stimulated, held, loved, spoken to and played with several times throughout the day.

What we do as breeders is crucial to the temperment and trainability of the puppy for it's entire lifetime.

Puppies raised in garages, basements and barns as an "After Though" for a little extra income can suffer lifelong problems as a result.

When someone sees a hyper or ill tempered purebred, it is the REAL breeder who spends hours defending the breed we love.

We also spend hours educating and consoling the buyer who had to relinquish their uncontrollable pet.

In many cases, we are fostering and rehoming that pet. To be honest, I am tired of cleaning up a few other "breeder's" messes.

The "breeder" who sold the puppy through the classifieds has changed their phone number or can't help the new buyer now because "They are not really breeders" and "this was just a one time thing"....It's not that I don't want to help anyone ~ but there are only so many hours in one day.

I don't want one of my buyers to be the next irresponsible breeder selling puppies through the classifieds and more importantly, I don't want one of my puppies to be the mother of the litter being advertised in that ad.

Unless you are prepared to take back any puppy you produce for any reason, at any time.....You should not breed even one litter.

Do you have the room, the time, the patience, the finances?

It is not easy and it is not always profitable.

It can be very costly.

While you may want to produce "just one litter" because all your friends and relatives LOVE your dog.....and want a puppy "just like her", One emergency vet visit can leave you in the red.

Those same friends and relatives usually find an excuse for not wanting the puppy once it becomes available.

When you have puppies to place at the age of 8 weeks ~ believe me, you will be in a panic and feel desperate. Ten 8 week old puppies can be difficult to deal with if you aren't prepared.

If you are having your first litter ~ Trust me....You won't be prepared.

I really hate to be this graphic, but there is no other way to get my point across. I recently recieved a call from a person wanting to know if their dog could be in labor.

I ask if the female's temperature had dropped. The response was "I don't know". I ask her to take the dogs temperature - and after telling her "how" to take it... the voice on the other end of the phone said "EEEEWWWWWW" Belive me, you will be doing much worse things than inserting a thermometer in the dog's rectum. If it makes you squeemish...you should not become a breeder. If you call me on the phone to ask if your female could be ready to breed and I ask you if her vulva is swollen... it would be in your best interest not to ask..."HER WHAT?!" If you do, you will probably hear a loud "Click". I am not interested in providing stud service for people who stammer and stutter when they hear the word "vulva". If you gasp and feel faint at the thought of wiping her with a tissue to let me know what color the discharge is....... Please spay your dog.

Please, please, please THINK before you breed.... Heartbreaking things can happen during whelping. They still happen to me and they can also happen to you. Whelping females can get eclampsia during and after whelping and die. Do you know how to prevent it? Are you familiar with the symptoms?

Puppies get stuck in the birth canal and die.

It is often on a Sunday or in the middle of the night. Emergency C-sections are not cheap.

What do you tell your children when you arrive home with no puppies?

Even worse, what if their beloved Molly comes home as ashes in a cremation box?

Whelping mothers can chew the cord too short on a puppy and the puppy can bleed to death right before your eyes.

Puppies are sometimes born with their insides on the outside.

Whelping others have been known to accidently bite off a paw while chewing the cord or stimulating the puppy.

Puppies can be born DEAD.

Puppies can be born perfectly healthy and fade from "Fading Puppy Syndrome" for no apparant reason.

What do you tell your children then?

Puppies can die from cleft paletts, toxic milk, round worms, coccidia, giardia, parvo, distemper, upper respiratory infections...and the list goes on...Some mothers have no milk. Some mothers have bad milk.

Are you prepared to bottle feed 10 puppies around the clock every few hours until they can drink formula from a dish? Do you know how to tube feed the small ones who are too weak to suck?

Some puppies get colic....and you warm and rub their tummies and walk the floor day and night praying for some sleep and listening to them cry in pain.

What do you do with the puppies that don't survive in the middle of winter in a cold climate? Are you willing to work on a puppy that appears to be dead for twenty minutes to see if you can revive it? Are you able to emotionally hanlde it if you can't save it?

Are you willing to suction mucus from a newborn puppy's nostrils using your own mouth if an emergency requires it?

Do you know what after birth smells like? What about the mothers who retain puppies or placenta?

They can get a severe infection and die on the operating table because you didn't know what signs to look for or how to give a shot of oxytocin.

What will you do when a puppy is being born feet first already out of the sack stuck in the birth canal, and the only way to get him out is to break his bones?

Warm and fuzzy?????

You and your children have plenty of life's experiences to enjoy.

Whelping is not one of them

It is not always the warm and fuzzy experience you are expecting.

The things I've mentioned on here are some of the less graphic.

What about studding out my male dog? Do your dog a huge favor and research brucellosis. If you think you can just put two dogs together and let nature take over ~ you need to think again.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Have you ever seen a male that had a huge portion of his face destroyed by a female who wasn't ready to be bred?

I have and it's not a pretty sight.

Is it worth it for that one time stud fee?

Do you REALLY want to breed your dog? Good luck

~~Author unknown~~

I would also like to say:
There isn't a need to "have at" anyone. The way to get your point across is not to scream in their face and call them irresponsible. It is by showing them what is right, not pointing your fingers, stating undistputable facts, and then helping them along the right path. This is true with any one and in any situation. Yelling does nothing.
I'm sure you are a nice person who just wants the best for her dog. This is why I urge you to do the neccessary research before you breed.

atldoglover · 11-15-2006, 04:19 PM

Yes, I plan on getting my dogs tested- as part of my contract. This is information from the breeder that I plan on getting my puppies from:
For those breeders who want to continue with 2nd, 3rd, and future generations it is of the utmost
importance to perform all genetic testing prior to breeding as well as researching pedigrees on cockers
and poodles. By researching the pedigrees, talking to breeders, performing necessary health
certifications (CERF for example), it may be possible to keep the Cockapoo breed one with very few
hereditary problems. As well as making the Cockapoos they produce healthier for a lifetime of love and
companionship with their families.

Although many diseases are inherited, they can be avoided in future generations by testing dogs before
breeding. Identification of dogs that do not carry disease genes is the key.

Control of any inherited disease is the responsibility of the breeder and his breed society like the
American Cockapoo Club or the NACR, the veterinary profession also has its role to play. As far as the
eye is concerned, such control is based upon regular clinical examination, particularly of the breeding
stock.

In the future, DNA based tests will play an increasingly significant role, but for the present and the
immediate future, an awareness of the diseases and the use of the official certification schemes represent
the most significant features of disease control. The presence of an inherited disease is not only a
problem for the affected dog, but also a problem for the whole breed, and as such, control measures must
be accepted by the whole breed working in unison. Routine examination and the publication of results in
an open registry are essential if the propagation of inherited disease is to be denied.

As I said, I am a teacher outside of cyber space, but a true teacher is one who realizes that they never stop learning (sorry to be cliche', but that's how I really feel). You have given me information, I will take it to heart and think about it. However, the way in which people approached me was somewhat harsh. I am new to this forum and I am a genuine person. Perhaps, I shouldn't breed. Perhaps people don't like the propagation of "mixed" breeds, but there is a way that adults should express themselves and I hope that this forum is one of those ways.

Kerri6398 · 11-15-2006, 04:32 PM

atldoglover -- Let me try and asnwer some of your questions. first of all, everyone who is going at you about breeding is just doing this to find out if you are a responsible breeder or not. There are many people out there that are not. If you are very serious about breeding please do get your dogs hips,eyes, ect certified. There is no other way of telling if they are healthy and ready to pass along good health to the puppies. There is alot to breeding and alot to prepare for before you even begin. Please be responsible!! I cannot stress that enough. Mutt or Purebreed. I do agree with what the others are saying but I will put all of this aside and try and answer your question that you need help on.

#1- Yes your dog should be 2 years of age before you breed. She needs to be fully grown and mature and that is the reason. She is not ready and would be way to young any time before that.Also, you are not able to get them certified until they are two years of age. However if you do decide to breed before she is two please get her x-rayed and have her preliminary's done at least. Do you have a breeder who you could answer all of your questions and help you along the way? If your dogs are from a reputable breeder then you should be able to ask her/him all the questions you need to know about breeding.

#2- If you are going to breed you really need to look into the "heat" process. I would think if you are looking into breeding then you would know this. However, it can last anywhere between 2-3 weeks. Usually it is one week coming in, one week in, and one week going out of heat. If that makes sense. Some bleed alot and others very little. Depends on each dog. My weim is in heat right now and she is a heavy bleeder. I am changing her pads constantly!! Some people leave their dogs in the same pad or change it every now and then but I do not believe that is very sanitary. If you wouldnt want to be in it all day then niether does your dog!

I hope this gives you a general idea about "heat". I really think you need to look into breeding a little more before deciding that you want to go ahead and breed. Like everyone else is saying, there are alot of unwanted dogs out there right now so make sure you know what your doing and that you have the puppies placed in homes before they are even born.

P.S. I myself have had two cockapoo's in my life. When I was very young they were our family dogs. I can tell you both had problems. One with her bladder and the other one had colon cancer and alot more problems. This is a mixed breed therefore there are more problems. You need to be extremley careful! I cannot stress this enough!

sobreeze · 11-15-2006, 04:49 PM

you love dogs so you must be a nice person but you realy need to listen what is being said here all the things in the list are things you realy need to know puppies are a very big responsibility not just for the ones you might want to keep but for the litter to all get good forever homes i used to breed cockers years ago and i love puppies so much but if i realy want a puppy just go get one from a shelter or if purbred buy one from good breeder i just got 2 boston puppies and as soon as they get 6mo. will be fixed they are just a handful by themselves and i have 8 dogs so not every one is bashing you we just want you to think it out first and if they are just babies enjoy that they grow so fast

Kerri6398 · 11-15-2006, 05:23 PM

Atldoglover-

I am sorry if we/I came off being to harsh. I in no way am trying to be rude. I understand where you are coming from completley. I just joined this forum a week ago or so and had the same experience. There are alot of people who are here to help you out the best they can and some people are just not to great with communication. I have noticed that on here it is much easier to think someone is being ignorant considering you dont know the tone they are using. I had a similiar experience on here myself, some people just being completley arrogant and flat out rude and I am not here to be like that in any way, shape or form. I just wanted to make sure you are being careful in all of your decision making. Which is what most people in this forum are out to do. They are here to help you. Alot of people on here work in shelters and they see alot of bad breeding and careless people. They are just very opinionated becuase they have seen so much. I think it would be hard not be that way if you saw homeless animals day in day out. I asked a breeding question also and got bombarded with comments on how I was irresponsible, and in no way am I that. However toward the end of my forum I realized all of those people were just trying to make sure I was doing the right thing and not overpopulating the dog world more then it already is. I have learned to respect them for that. Please dont take what they are saying the wrong way and welcome to this forum!!!!

Curbside Prophet · 11-15-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerri6398

However toward the end of my forum I realized all of those people were just trying to make sure I was doing the right thing and not overpopulating the dog world more then it already is. I have learned to respect them for that. Please dont take what they are saying the wrong way and welcome to this forum!!!!

Applause!!! Thank you for sharing your understanding.

atldoglover · 11-15-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerri6398

Atldoglover-

I am sorry if we/I came off being to harsh. I in no way am trying to be rude. I understand where you are coming from completley. I just joined this forum a week ago or so and had the same experience. There are alot of people who are here to help you out the best they can and some people are just not to great with communication. I have noticed that on here it is much easier to think someone is being ignorant considering you dont know the tone they are using. I had a similiar experience on here myself, some people just being completley arrogant and flat out rude and I am not here to be like that in any way, shape or form. I just wanted to make sure you are being careful in all of your decision making. Which is what most people in this forum are out to do. They are here to help you. Alot of people on here work in shelters and they see alot of bad breeding and careless people. They are just very opinionated becuase they have seen so much. I think it would be hard not be that way if you saw homeless animals day in day out. I asked a breeding question also and got bombarded with comments on how I was irresponsible, and in no way am I that. However toward the end of my forum I realized all of those people were just trying to make sure I was doing the right thing and not overpopulating the dog world more then it already is. I have learned to respect them for that. Please dont take what they are saying the wrong way and welcome to this forum!!!!

Thank you. I take everything with a grain of salt. I do think that this is a great forum with lots of great advice. But, thank you for sharing your opinion. Points are well taken.

dogsgalore · 11-15-2006, 07:13 PM

Breeding should be left to the "experts" I have a rottweiler that has an excellent temperment comes from a great pedigree but she is getting spayed becuase I have no eperience in breeding, it takes more then a male and a female, what about complcations? and taking care of the pups, my rott came from a long line of 12-16 pups per liter in 4 generations.

I think people that try and say their mixed breed dogs should not be breeding, Im not saying they are bad breeds.. but why create more pups??? we have so many in shelters now shame that your pups will most likely end up there, I have a rescued malt/****zu mix that was bought from a pet store and turned into the humane society...

tirluc · 11-16-2006, 05:58 AM

i just have 2 things to add to this......1st, any mixes being bred and tried to make a breed will not be recognized as such until you can take 2 of that crossing (say Cockapoo) and cross them and get one general look.....this needs to be done consistantly (where someone can look at the dog and say "oh, that's a Cockapoo") for at least 5 generations......and, so far, this has not been achieved.....

2nd, i hope that these 2 pups you are getting are from 2 completely different breedings or you're going to be starting the downfall of this line right from the beginning......

dogsgalore · 11-16-2006, 08:10 AM

I was thinking the same thing I was under the impression she may be getting a brother and sister from the same litter... Again why breed!! when so many dogs and cats are put down each day

blackgavotte · 11-16-2006, 10:01 AM

That terminology seems to have made some people a bit anxious, but anyone reading my posts will realize that though I may be passionate about dog care in general and in the larger, world wide picture, I am not in the habit of bashing people nor being rude. I write the way I speak, and I am learning to not do that quite so freely. No one can see, when I am writing, that there is often a wicked gleam of humour in my eyes when I am using certain terms. For that, and that alone, I apologize and will try to do better.

Now....The screaming from the rafters would be so intense, and members of the AKC and CKC leaving in such droves, if a cockapoo was recognized as a breed, I can tell you on that basis alone, if not the rest of what I will say, it is not going to happen. The very principles of ethical and serious dog breeding would be so insulted that those two clubs, in my opinion, would not stand .

Cockapoos were around when I was first in the dog world as a pro. I thought back yesterday to when that was, and that was in 1960! Gulp !

The ones we saw then were actually, usually, the exact first generation cross, an American Cocker and a Miniature Poodle. They were usually pretty skookum dogs, of medium to heavy bone for their size, almost always black, and you could actually see the clear breed characteristics in them. They were actually more consistent in type than cockapoos today. Most of them were around 25-30 lbs. Even then there were problems with health, so if you think that by crossing those two breeds, you can get healthy animals, think again.

American Cocker lines are literally riddled with so many problems, they are next in heartbreak to breed only to English Buldogs. The breed has epilepsy, cherry eye, PRA, cataracts, luxating patellas, hip displasia, entropian, severe ear and skin problems that are serious and often lifelong, ( have you ever seen an ear resection surgery? I have, many, almost always on cockers and the really serious skin problems the breed has is enough to break the bank not to mention the discomfort these dogs can go through, life long ) , then there is the usual problem in breeding of trying to produce good temperament, coat, and general beauty, or at least respectable soundness of structure. Black cockers are usually considered to have the more stable temperaments than gold or red, but 'taint necessarily so either.

In Miniature poodles, you have also PRA ( for which they have just within the past 5 years or so FINALLY found a gene for the more common form ), epilepsy, luxating patellas, legg-perthes, hip displasia, juvenile cataracts, as well as the usual considerations of mental and physical soundness. In those two breeds in fact you have potentially more problems than in most combinations.

The fact is, that nowadays, with the generations of " pure bred cockapoos " that has gone on, no one could possibly unravel the genetic hodgepodge. The only way to get a new breed recognized is to have seven generations of documented, proven and consistent as to type, breeding. And I mean seriously documented with an elaborate paper and film trail. There also has to be a reason for a new breed to be developed. What would the reason be in this case? Pet ? Do you think there is a need for more breeds now, for being a pet? Look through the AKC and CKC books. There is not. There is a pet for everyone out there in so many, many breeds already.

I guarantee you that IF there was ever even consideration given to who would be the " developer " of this new breed, it would not be someone that has no credibility, ( nor money ) in the dog world already. It is more likely to be a respected person who already has a track record with either club, of showing and probably judging, with some other breed, in an exemplary fashion, over many years. It is NOT going to be someone who has been doing backyard breeding of mixed breeds.

With the heartbreaking, barbaric, inhuman and inhumane situation of the puppy mills, the shelters and private rescue organizations in North America, there is no ethical reason to bring more puppies into this world who have even a chance of either ending in one of these situations, or whose ancestors came from one of these situations, or whose progeny could contribute to the situation even more. It is obscene to add to this mess for any reason. I have known so many people who were going to breed their dog " just once " , it usually doesn't end that way. They carry on, often it is people whose incomes are low and they think this is a good way to make some extra money. The worst of it is, it can be. People continue to support this without thinking of the bigger ramifications. You will already have supported this, if you have bought the two puppies you were speaking of. I only hope, that you will seriously reconsider the breeding aspect. You may indeed be a nice person, but in this subject, you need more education.