An Idea about the Rules.. Maybe off base?

Elana55

I don't know if this suggestion will get me banned or in trouble. I hope not. It is just an idea and not meant to offend anyone.

Has anyone (Admin. or Moderator) considered a rule that if a Moderator enjoins in a debate on a forum that they cannot also Moderate that thread (a different Moderator gets to Moderate the thread)?

I have heard of this rule on other forums that are strongly Moderated (and this forum is Moderated very well IMO.. I have yet to find a Cat Forum as well moderated).

If a Moderator posts adding to the thread discussion and is not posting in a Moderator Capacity (reminding us of rules etc.) that a DIFFERNT person has to act in the capacity of Moderator for that thread. I believe, on those forums with this rule, that a Moderator cannot debate AND moderate in the same response on a thread.

I know the Dog Forum is privately owned and this idea may have been tossed around at some other time or may not and may have no merit with the Forum, its Admins or its Mods.

Corteo

I like this idea...

FourIsCompany

I used to moderate on a (non-dog) forum that had a very similar rule and it worked VERY well. After all, "moderators are people, too" (one of that board's favorite sayings), and they are subject to the same vulnerabilities and failings as the rest of us. If I was participating in a thread and saw what I thought was an infraction of the rules, I would contact another moderator to have an objective look at it. It's hard to look at a situation objectively when one's strong opinions and perhaps emotions are involved. Not only was the board moderated fairly, the the mods felt free to participate fully in a discussion without having to be careful of appearing biased in their moderation duties.

I like this idea very much and hope the staff here will consider it.

wvasko

I believe it's one of those ideas that if it doesn't help surely can't hurt.

Corteo

Just wanted to say ditto

BoxMeIn21

I agree with this...


and this...

txcollies

Great idea!

rosemaryninja

x2 (10char)

RonE

I think it's a good idea, respectfully presented, and deserves consideration.

Personally, I would grant myself exceptions. If somebody posted a blatant spam message on this thread, for example, I would delete it. But if someone expressed an opinion on this thread that I simply disagreed with, it would be wildly inappropriate for me to take, or threaten, action against that poster.

That would be true, BTW, whether or not I had posted to the thread myself.

Curbside Prophet

I too think it should be considered because I don't think the other mods are sharing in the bad guy duties.

rosemaryninja

Who is the deciding authority over passing rules and such things?

Curbside Prophet

Our admin decides the rules, including additions and subtractions. Interpretation and enforcement of those rules by the mods is decided on both collectively when needed and individually when needed.

Marsh Muppet

On a couple of the php boards I moderated, the Mods and Admin(s) had a super secret Bat Cave (subforum that was invisible to regular members) where warnings, bannings, thread locking, and suchlike were discussed before any actions were taken. This tended to moderate the Moderators, and keep them a little more engaged in the process. Moderators were assigned specific topics to monitor and were given responsibility for keeping their individual litter boxes clean. Any Mod could post on any thread, but were strongly discouraged from swinging lumber (aka: the Clue Bat) in topics areas not assigned to them.

I don't know if, or to what extent, this kind of system is used here, but I have sensed some uncertainty as to what constitutes crossing the line. Perhaps some vigorous internal discussion is in order.

Curbside Prophet

Our forum rules specify what should be done if a member senses uncertainty.

It would be remiss for members to not also review all of our forum rules.
http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-d...es-please.html (Dog Forum Rules: Please Read)

wvasko

Ditto
Wow, as people get older some really do get wise. Not gonna include myself in that sentence but that other sep(oh whatever that word was that means seventy)has everything covered.

RonE

I, too, am a big fan of Elana's. I'd be hard-pressed to single out anyone who has contributed more to dogforums.

But her fear isn't supported by history. Very rarely is someone who says, "I'll probably get banned for this" banned - probably because they already recognize the line and they don't cross it. Elana's suggestion was well thought-out and is being actively discussed outside of this thread.

Because you don't see it happen, you may be surprised to learn that nearly all of the banned members are first time posters who joined to spam the forum - either with commercial messages (grey market iPods,) redirects to other forums, petitions, surveys, solicitations, etc.

There have been established members who have been banned, but it's not as easy as you might think. One that comes to mind was unhappy about something on the forum and was PMing members, encouraging them to jump ship and join another forum. A few have been banned after posting long explanations of why they were leaving and all the ways dogforums sucks. Slamming the door on the way out is a sure-fire way to have the door locked behind you.

As for having moderators responsibilities each limited to a few sub-forums: The administrators made the decision to have all moderators be global moderators so that actions, particularly against spammers and obvious trolls (and once you've seen an obvious troll, there is no question about what's going on) without having to consult with other moderators. Moderators do sleep and hold jobs and live in different time zones. Moderating by committee is not efficient and would result in a forum that most of you would not care for.

I would agree, though, that an action such as banning an established member should be preceded by some discussion and there is a resource in place to make that possible.

Elana55

Please elucidate.
I am often unsure of the line. In fact, I figured that because this thread could be construed as critical of the forum, I almost figured it would be deleted and I would be sent packing. I also understand that the Forum is Pvtly. held and decisions can be made w/o member input (as it is with most pvtly held enterprise.. this is a fact and not a crticism).

for instance:

13. Thread Hijacking and Thread Crapping is not tolerated here under any circumstance.
Those who "Hijack" and "Crap" other member's threads and continue to go off topic will be warned. Taking other member's thread off topic and spamming them up is a very rude and ignorant practice and behavior of that sort is not tolerated here. Respect your fellow forum members topics.

14. Arguing, flaming, insulting or threatening a Staff members is grounds for permanent banning.

for #13, Often a discussion will naturally segue into a different area or will become specific to a side topic associated with the original. Yes.. it veers and may not be exactly on the original topic, but if it is realted and everyone is having a good time discussing it politely albeit sometimes passionately, is it worthy editing and should people be banned or have "naughty Points" added? I don't know. I think not but I do not own the forum.

for #14, When is something an argument and when is it an impassioned discussion? What one person finds insulting another may find simply amusing or take it as a different view point. I never know where the line is and have ceased to enjoin in the more impassioned threads for concern of being considered argumentative and being faced with banning when a Mod is also a poster in the impassioned discussion.

2. If you're caught insulting someone, no matter what the reason, warning points will be added to your account. Continued offenses will result in a temporary ban, or permanent ban at the discretion of the moderators.

3. If you disregard an Administrator or a Moderators decision or do anything that directly hurts the forums you will have warning points added to your account. We aren't here to have you scream at us, argue with us or flame us. We are here to help you, let us help you!

for #2 Again.. what is an insult to one person might be a simple dissenting view point to another. Sometimes the line is obvious. Sometimes it is not.

for #3 I certainly agree with flaming etc. Mods.. I think Moderating is probably a thankless task for the most part. However, sometimes I see a warning posted by a Mod and I do not understand what is being warned against or who was offending and wonder if it is me (usually it is obvious, but not always). When that happens, I am afriad to ask WHY because I figure that big old banning stick will come down on my head because I dared to ask. Asking might be construed as disagreeing with or arguing with a Moderator decision. I walk away at that point.



Thank you again (surprised).

When I post a concern about being banned it is because I know there is a line.. I just don't know where it is. This explanation does help. I expect you nail a lot of commercial spammers that I never see. My filter on my ISP does a similar thing, thankfully. I don't believe in door slamming. That was my Father's way of handling things.. and then I got to fix the door...

Actually, when I originally posted this thread I wondered if there were enough Moderators for a posting Mod to have a different Mod be the Moderator (boy is that a complicated sentence.. LOL). Limited qualified personnel can be a problem... and it was when I ran a business.

I would hope that this resource would be used each time unless the violation was flagrant spamming, commercialism etc. (something I assume is rare among long time members).

Marsh Muppet

Always keep Rule #1 in mind: It's only the internet. If some point of gross stupidity goes unanswered, the sun will still rise tomorrow (and the poster will likely remain grossly stupid whether you respond, or not). If one is banned from a message board for excessive grumpiness, there is somewhere a community of like-minded curmudgeons just waiting to embrace you and curse your ignorance.

Elana55

Oh yes.. I have often said that if you get your drawers in a bunch over a post (or a forum) then you really need to re-think things (uhh.. like if you have a life? LOL).

Still, I have enjoyed this site immensely and have learned not a little from being here. If it can be improved by an idea, then that idea should be expressed. The forum owners, Admins and Mods can choose to adopt, modify or reject the idea.

If it ceases to be fun due to any reason, be it changes in the individual member or changes in the way the forum is run (or lack of change in the way the forum is run) walking away is always a valid option.

zimandtakandgrrandmimi

I have an idea..make Elana a mod and then she won't have to worry about it.