Reputable Breeders?

Whitney

Do we already have a list of reputable breeders from USA/Canada and Europe? If not, could we make a list for people to look at if they are interested in buying a dog or puppy? We had a list for reptiles on a bearded dragon site, and it was very helpful.

blackgavotte

Whitney, this can be a very tricky thing. CKC has its Dogs Annual, which comes out every November, with alphabetical listings for breeders in each breed, however its paid for by the breeders, like an ad really, so it still doesn't mean that the people you find in the annual are the best of the best, only that they have chosen to pay for an expensive ad. Certainly its a start. CKC has a list of members which they will share online or via snail mail also. At least if the breeder is a member there are certain checks and balances just to keep up your membership with them, its the best that can be done really, though believe me, that still does not guarantee the best dog, nor the best advice and support, nor anything... its just the best choice. I can see a real problem if a forum recommends people without having the natural checks in place, of the larger organization. AKC also has similar serviced to our CKC here. I feel its best to use these larger organizations because if not, you could be dealing with anyone out there, who tells you anything...Even the big guys can't legislate ethics nor intelligence, but there are some checks and balances with them.

mistee06

why not have a thread for people that you believe are reputable?? and that have proven themselves to be reputable?? like by not having any accidental breedings, having there dogs completely health tested ( that means not the vet saying their in good health) and having their dogs titled and worthy of breeding!! I think that would be a great idea, this board really needs that.

blackgavotte

I don't think this forum administrator could be or should be responsible for monitoring or checking out the information. People can tell you whatever they want you to hear. With CKC and AKC at least they have to have the proof in their litter registrations, individual registrations, etc, and in some breeds there is testing for genetic problems, which the breeders can prove with file numbers etc. I just think the Big Guys are still the best way for someone to find a reputable breeder of a specific breed. At least its a starting point, then talking directly with the breeders and seeing their stock and show records, working trial wins, obedience certificates, medical records, etc, whatever they have, is important.

Curbside Prophet

IMO, a reputable breeder is found, through research, by an owner, and does not come as a recommendation by anyone over the internet. The internet, although very informative and useful, is a convient place for con artists and scammers to lurk. Therefore, in my mind, posting a list of reputable breeders is futile, and possibly a step in the wrong direction. These are just my opinions, and really any argument against them is also futile...I'm pretty concrete in my understanding of this subject. Instead, I would request any potential puppy buyer to consider the exercise I detailed in a previous thread on the different species of breeders, and how to find a good breeder. I believe if you start here, you're better off than searching a list of recommendations.

"This is probably a good time to talk about the several types of breeders:

1) puppy mill breeders - most everyone has seen the horrible pictures and TV reports about these places. Not very many people would purposefully go to one of these to buy a dog. However, many pet stores - especially the mall-type chain stores - regularly are supplied with their stock for sale from puppy mills.

2) backyard breeders - a step up (quite a big step up in some cases, in other situations not much better than) from puppy mills. These are usually well-intentioned folks who just don't know what they are doing - to be blunt about it. Maybe the breeding happened by accident; perhaps they wanted "just one litter so the children could experience birth" - - - etc. Sometimes they are individuals who DO breed - but just to "make money." Their breeding stock is not usually of high quality or show quality. In other words, it probably does NOT meet the standards set by the AKC. These are usually people who do not belong to breed clubs and so are uninformed of genetic issues, genetic testing, health testing, issues with various lines in the breed. They breed willy-nilly and get mediocre results. Your luck with these people is probably 50-50. The puppy bought from a backyard breeder may live a long life as a wonderful pet (but could never be a show dog), or it may be plagued with illness because the breeder bred the wrong dogs/pedigrees.
2b) Sometimes these backyard breeders - for love of money - get into "fad" type breedings in which they will continually breed the SMALLEST (perhaps the least healthy as well) of a litter - and then continue down-sizing so that they can sell "teacup" or "toy". THERE IS NO SUCH THING. The same thing happens with various colors. These people breed these dogs so that they can sell the puppies at enormous prices....and no other reason.

3) Show dog breeders. Your first thought might be "Why should I buy from a show-breeder if I don't want a show dog?" You should ONLY buy from a show breeder because they will be most likely to have your breed of choice that IS your breed of chioce...that is, it is the right size, the right color, the right temperament, so on and so forth. People need to understand that buying from a show breeder ensures that the breed remains the same, the wonderful breed that it is. Not every puppy in a litter can be a show dog. In fact, one is usually lucky to have a show puppy in a litter, let alone more than one. Too many things can go "off" - teeth, coat, attitude, etc. These are NOT things that prevent a puppy from making a wonderful pet - and the show breeders are always so thankful to find good homes for these puppies.

When you buy a less-than-quality dog from a backyard breeder or from a pet store, you are encouraging these unethical breeders to continue their business.

Now, how to KNOW if you are dealing with a "good/ethical" breeder:

**First, you need to talk on the phone. If the individual is talking mostly $$$$$ and is very anxious for you to come buy the dog - this is a very strong hint that the person may not be ethical.

**If, however, the individual takes time to visit with you - tells you a lot about the dogs he/she has and his/her own background with dogs - and money does not come up right away unless you ask about it, that's a good sign.

**The breeder should ask YOU many questions about your history with dogs, if you have owned a coonhound before, what happened to it, your living environment, your work schedule, how you plan to house the dog, if you have a vet...and much more. Any breeder that does not ask you a similar series of questions may NOT be an ethical breeder.

**The breeder should invite you to come to his/her home/kennel and visit. You should be allowed to see the mother of the puppies, and the sire as well if he is on the premises. If the breeder refuses to allow you to visit, or to see the parents of the puppies, he/she may not be an ethical breeder.

**If you are not offered a health guarantee of any kind - he may not be an ethical breeder.

**If he/she cannot name for you some of the major health issues affecting the breed (PRA, cataracts, pancreatitis, bladder stones, allergies, etc.) he may NOT be an ethical breeder.

**If he does not belong to at least one breed club (or all-breed club) he may not be an ethical breeder. (He does NOT have to show his dogs - but belonging to a club means that a person is more likely to be informed and up-to-date of major issues affecting the breed - especially health.

**If you see several litters in the house/kennel at the same time - he may not be an ethical breeder - although occasionally ethical breeders DO get "caught" with more than one litter.

**Ask how many times the dam of the puppies you are looking at has been bred. Ask when her last litter (before this one) was delivered. If the dam has been bred in excess of 2 or 3 times, or if the last litter was only six months before (on the bitch's last heat cycle) then you may NOT be dealing with an ethical breeder.

**Ask to see a pedigree. If you see very few Champions on the pedigree, or none - you may not be dealing with an ethical breeder. This may not always be a reliable indicator; however, coupled with any of the above items, it would be.

**Ask for the telephone number of the breeder's vet and ask if you may call and get a reference. If you are refused this information, or if the breeder makes excuses, you may not be dealing with an ethical breeder. Good breeders have long histories with good vets that will give them good references.

There's probably more that can be said here, but I think you get the idea."

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Whitney

I guess I didn't really mean an entire list, and solely not from some people saying, "oh, so and so is good!" -- I have seen those books/magazines with the ads of breeders and certain breeds, and there are waaaay to many to list... but perhaps a list of breeders that stand out amongst the majority? I always believe in doing your own research, but the internet is not always a credible source of information (think Wikipedia). I find that hands on experience and personal experiences always help.

I was more or less curious because I remembered this list for Bearded Dragons on a forum that I used to visit. There was a list of breeders that could be trusted to sell animals with good health, and no inbreeding and countless other qualities that were beneficial towards the reptile and the owner. Anywho, I like the 'types of breeders' list. It's very informative.

mistee06

curbside prophet that was a really GREAT post

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