VEt said to change dogs food

tweety

Vet said to feed my dog Purina EN due to high liver enzymes. Well, doggie is not happy with change, and he wont eat.
What now?
Tweety

RonE

Is this a canned or dry food?

Dogs are not as crazy about dietary changes as we seem to think they should be, but it is likely that the dog will come around and eat when she's hungry enough.

I've never actually had a dog that wouldn't eat the soles off my shoes, so I don't have specific advice about a finicky eater except give it time.

Curbside Prophet

Did the vet instruct you to make the change slowly? If you switched cold turkey it may end up being a bigger problem in the end (no pun intended). If the microbes in your dogs body aren't allowed to fight their battle to a slow and meaningful conclusion, the war in your doggies tummy will not be a good one for him.

Cassie Nova

Hahaha I wouldn't have caught that had you not said "no pun intended"!

Try mixing in something yummy to start, then gradually taking it out until there's none.

Also, remember that your vet may or may not have experience with canine nutrition.

RonE

What I learned just recently, on this forum, in fact, is that Purina EN is a prescription diet for dealing with specific problems. I would probably trust my vet on that sort of recommendaiton.

When I read the topic title, I was sure you were going to say that your vet wanted you to switch to Hills Science Diet.

briteday

If the vet gave you the dry food ask if you can feed the canned EN instead. Also, most dogs will eat after 2-3 days. Although it won't do any good for the liver if he goes any longer than that. I'd give it the weekend, try the canned if you are offering the dry, and talk to the vet if things don't improve.

Ginny01OT

timberwolf organics has an array of kibble, some are for convalescing dogs, you can check out their website and see if it may help:

www.timberwolforganics.com

www.dogfoodanalysis.com

familypetfood

Check out www.lookslikespamtome.com You will find Lifes Abundance there +++++ pet food

Ginny01OT

I am not crazy about it because it has brewers yeast and dried beet pulp.

www.dogfoodanalysis.com

Misskiwi67

Like others have said, try to switch slowly, and ask if they sell the canned variety to help his palate. Sometimes adding a bit of water will help too.

The EN is a diet for a specific problem. Just like humans get special diets when they have diabetes or liver failure, this is a specific diet for canine health problems. A bit of brewers yeast or beet pulp (actually an excellent source of partially fermentable fiber) should not turn you off.

If your dog has bad diarrhea, refuses to eat after more than 3 days, refuses to maintain his caloric intake after 10-14 days, or has any other drastic health problem, THEN ask for a different alternative. Until then, treat the new food like an antibiotic, you need to finish the treatment and allow it time to work before stopping.

The timberwolf diets that were recommended are NOT specific for these types of problems, and will not offer anything for this dog. Science Diet, Eukanuba, and Royal Canin will make other alternative diets that your dog may find more palatable should the Purina be ineffective.

Ginny01OT

Specificity for certain breeds/illnesses based on brand to me is just a marketing ploy. A diabetic can eat an array of food as long as the sugar content and carbs are kept in check.
Many vets do not have any nutritional training when it comes to diets for dogs. Most vets do recommend Hill's Prescription diets for convalescing dogs or other subpar foods. To say Purina EN, which contains Corn gluten and the like, is the only available alternative for this dog and his condition is just not warranted. I would think any food that is highly digestible and high protein/low carb could help. Perhaps the best thing to do is to talk to a veterinary nutritionalist because I am sure there are better alternatives than Eukanuba, Hills and Purina--which is highly debatable.

Dried beet pulp is a controversial ingredient and I believe there are better alternatiaves for fiber. There are many, many better dog foods out there---even for dogs with specific health issues---speaking to a veterinary nutritionist would definitely help.
This is an excerpt from www.dogfoodanalysis.com

Beet pulp is also filler and a controversial ingredient – it is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required.

tweety

Thanks for all your input. My dog is a toy fox terrier. I took him in for a dental clean and the vet ended up pulling 8 loose teeth. So my little Dandy boy has not felt well until today. When I took him in they said I had to do the pre op blood work, but could op to do bloodwork also that would show his over all health function. I opted for the overall health function.
He has been a feisty, active, good appetite, little dog...with no indigestion, no loss of appetite, no diarrhea or anything. but then the blood test showed liver enzymes hi at 1500.
So he gave me Desonyl pills to give one daily to help liver function...no problem with that...he takes it in small ball of fat free cheese.
The vet said to feed him purina en...Dadny had always ate Iams mini chuncks for Toy breeds. I mixed about half and hal and he ate a little of each. Next day tried less of the EN in with the Iams. He picked the EN out piece by piece and put it on the floor and ate the Iams. So today I just put the EN in the feed bowl...and he wont eat. I feel so bad. I think there must be an alternative....or do we really need a food change? Maybe the Desonyl will help him with out food change. Dandy has always been a dry food eater, so canned EN is probably not the option.
I'm gonna have to talk to vet and research. I know the vert feeds Purina EN to his boarded animals...so...
You all are so great. This little dog is my world.
Thanks Tweety

Ginny01OT

I am sorry you are going thru this. I think a good question to ask the vet is why Purina EN--is it the high protein/low carbor low carb/high protein ratio--there has to be a reason for this specific dog food and I am sure there are other dog foods out there with the same food analysis/ratio of carbs to proteins, etc. So I am sure you have other alternatives that are even better than you could have imagined. My vet put my late dog Snowie on Hill's Prescription diet--lots of good it did her (not) but I didn't know any better. You might have to do some research and ask several people but it is well worth it in the long run. I hope your baby feels better. I am a BARFer with some BARF mixer kibble (I am also a big fan of tripe), I don't have the issues you have but you can believe me when I say that I would look into it until I was blue in the face to find the best thing for my dog. My dog had bad allergies and thank goodness they are now gone (I switched him off Iams Smart Puppy). I am a BARF convert but I know there are many people who just can't do that type of diet for a number of reason and there are some good kibbles and even canned varieties out there that could help. Write it all down and research, research and ask questions. Once you find out the basis for this food you can visit other websites of other dog brands and read about it. I am sure you will find something out there for your sweetie. Best wishes.

Lorina

And on the other hand, my renal failure cat did fantastic on Science Diet prescription food. Prior to that, she always threw up at least once a week, and had a somewhat greasy coat. On K/D she didn't throw up once, had a super soft, silky coat, and her kidney function improved. I also know of a recently diagnosed liver failure dog who was losing weight until they found out what was wrong with her, that is thriving and gained back 4 pounds in about 3 weeks on her Prescription Diet and LVR Formula supplements. Her owners were considering euthanasia, but are now thrilled that they're dog is back to what she was.

I'm not saying that other foods couldn't do the same thing, but I've seen too many animals to list here do well on Rx diets to dismiss them as a ploy.

Ginny01OT

Once a pet food has been recalled as one of the Feline Prescriptions from Hills was, I would be very leary, thank goodness it wasn't the one your cat was on!

I wonder what make a food an RX food--can anyone tell me? Are there medications in it that would make it prescription only? Are they foods supplied by major dog food companies that are supplied only by vets and therefore, there is a higher premium/profit on them? I am just wondering if anyone out there knows.

Again, this is just me--everyone has their experiences and opinions...

Misskiwi67

Read a book on clinical nutrition and you might change your mind. I recommend this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Small-Animal-C...6681292&sr=8-1



Fermentable fibers such as beet pulp have been clinically proven to improve intestinal function and increase surface absorption due to increased microvilli. If you read the studies, ther are some differences in fiber sources, but the source doesn't matter nearly as much as its fermentation properties. Being a partially fermentable fiber, beet pulp is the best of both worlds and is an excellent fiber source for the average diet.

You should add pubmed to your list of resources instead of only relying on dogfoodanalysis.com. Its good, but biased.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed

Misskiwi67

Go to the websites and read about the specific diets. All of them have published clinical trials to back them up. They DO WORK. Ingredient lists don't tell the whole story, and using them as the only source of information is a disservice to any pet suffering from a medical condition.

A prescription diet is like a neutraceutical in a convenient to feed package. It is only available through your veterinarian, is "prescribed" for specific health problems, and almost always has scientific evidence to back it up.

Here are two of my favorites. They use extremely high levels of antioxidants and fatty acids to improve the health and happiness of old dogs, while decreasing the things old dogs don't need. Ignore the ingredient lists and enjoy the effects of supplementation without supplements. I would rather recommend supplementation with fish oil and glucosamine first, but its hard to attain these levels of fatty acids through supplementation alone. These are also good choices for clients who have difficulties giving pills to their pets, or just plain want a quick fix.

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1175363906823

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1175364159589

Another important choice is c/d, which will dissolve struvite crystals over a period of about 6 weeks time, preventing surgery and painful complications for many dogs. The protein is low however, so this is a short-term diet for a specific use only. The ingredient lists tell you nothing about the special properties of these diets. Ingredient lists are NOT everything...

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1175364464526

And then there is my favorite food of all time. a/d. One of these days I will sit down and eat a can of this myself. Its a soft canned food, but when stirred, it liquefies and can be fed through a tube. Its high in nutrients and calories, and is designed for pets recovering from illness. It has a unique characteristic odor that few pets (and even myself) can resist, even in the face of nausea, which is great for getting picky pets or sick pets to get much needed nutrients for recovery, without the need for stomach tubes.

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1175364656573

Here's a clinicians brief on the brain diet:

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/pdf/w...0Feb%20fnl.pdf

Here is another NAVC publication. On page 6 you will find information on Hills j/d.

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/cms/p....April05.P.pdf

And Proceedings from the Hills Global Symposium on Feline Care:

http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/cms/p...e%20IntFNL.pdf

Ginny01OT

Thank you for the info, I appreciate and I respect your knowledge. I still am hoping that because I do a raw diet with a BARF mixer I won't have to face any of these problems. I must say that I have a dog that suffered from ear allergies until I took him off food with dried beet pulp, I have researched it online over and over and it is a controversial ingredient. Good for you, not good for me, I prefer to steer clear of it, that's all and I still tell people that may have similar problems to eliminate from their food sourse and see if there is an improvement.

briteday

But I just want to know if you can show me a study where dogs are able to digest corn and corn by-products. When I fed my dogs grain based foods, in my poorer days, I observed that much of the grain was in their stools, undigested.
I'm sure that all of the commercial brands such as Hills, Purina, Iams, Euk, etc all have studies showing that the dogs tested ate and thrived on the food and that it meets all of the minimum requirements for dogs. I used to live near a testing facility with hundreds of hungry dogs testing all kinds of foods. Just because a dog is hungry and eats the food placed in front of them doesn't mean it is good for them. And on my observation of the facility, most of the dogs I saw were beagles, who as we all know are one of the most food motivated breeds on the planet. I personally know one who "ate" through a door to get to a bag of food. However, given the idea that dogs don't digest most grains well most of us choose to feed our dogs non-grain based diets.
I can't argue with a vet about this particular circumstance of liver problems because I don't have the knowledge to know what would be better for this dog. But I do know that as a pharmaceutical rep, our animal products division got just as much promotional money as I did, and that each rep's individual fund was higher than my annual salary, as was my promotional fund. So it's a sure bet that vets are being educated in nutrition the same way medical doctors are being educated in drugs, via golf balls and expensive meals.
I'm sure there are a few good products out there for specific ailments, just as there are good pharmaceuticals on the market. But I think it's safe to say that vets are incredibly influenced by companies like Hills and Purina via direct marketing and "commissions" on the products they are able to sell. Take away the commissions and the promotional monies spent on vets and see how much Rx diet they are willing to sell.

I've copied the ingredients of the dry formula of Purina EN below. Don't care how much the tested dogs liked it, health improved, or how the numbers shake out for nutrition standards, I really don't like the ingredients. Lots of corn, coconut oil?????? for gastro problems?????, animal digest (unspecified parts of unspecified animals- which can include goats, rats, pigs, horses just to name a few) in a broth or powder made from under-composed animals)???, and animal fat...a little more specific please? What kind of animal fat? Wouldn't that along with the saturated fat in coconut oil be a little hard on the gi?

Ingredients (Dry)
Brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, chicken meal, coconut oil, animal digest, animal fat preserved with mixedtocopherols (form of Vitamin E), calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, sodium bicarbonate, soybean oil, fish oil, salt, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, copper proteinate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

My opinion in no way reflects that of others on the forum. It is just my personal opinion.

Ginny01OT

thank you briteday, we are on the same page--