The Need to Know About Fish Oil:

deege39 · 10-25-2009, 02:04 PM

I have some Fish Oil caplets, and I've been hearing that people give this to their dogs (and cats) for good skin and coat...

Is it worth it?

Can I just give a capsule a day or what?

Thanks for the help!

MoosMom · 10-25-2009, 03:58 PM

Ya its good for their skin and coat. Lots of fatty acids. I usually get a liquid form and poor in on food, but Since we are feeding raw now I imagine I will have to go to a pill form. I've heard flax seed oil is better, but I honestly havent reseached it yet. I know its better for people because its of plant origin and we metabolize it better. SO maybe the fish is better for animals. In any case it wont hurt!

brecken · 10-25-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deege39

I have some Fish Oil caplets, and I've been hearing that people give this to their dogs (and cats) for good skin and coat...

Is it worth it?

Can I just give a capsule a day or what?

Thanks for the help!

there is also food out there that helps with the skin and coat there is california natural which have vitamins and minerals in it and fish oils. other good foods are other Eagle Holistic Select, and Pure Vita

Labsnothers · 10-25-2009, 08:44 PM

The nutritional needs of dogs are quite well known and most foods have plenty of the proper fatty acids.

Unless you are seeing problems, I would leave well enough alone.

Flax seed, linseed, oil is a source of the linoleic acid dogs need, but not the best. Most of the vegetable oils are strictly 18 carbon chain ones. Some of my recent reading has almost convinced me dogs need some of the longer chain acids too, mostly found in fish oil. One source or another, most dog foods have it and everything else the AAFCO says dogs need.

lulusmom · 10-25-2009, 09:40 PM

Actually a lot of commercial dog foods fall short of having enough omega 3 and/or 6 fatty acids. I was quite surprised that both my dogs' gp vet and their internal medicine specialists recommended that I supplement with omega fatty acids for their skin, coat, allergies and arthritis. A lot of vets aren't well versed on nutrition but I would still recommend that you ask your vet his/her opinion. We can share information with you but we don't know your dog's medical history. There are some medical conditions where supplementing with fish or any other kind of oil would not be a good thing so it is always best to check with your vet first.

canteloupe · 10-25-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

One source or another, most dog foods have it and everything else the AAFCO says dogs need.

Nope. Fish oil is far too delicate to survive the extruding process. Fish oil isn't even supposed to be exposed to air, let alone processed the way it is in dog food.

I feed kibble and supplement with fish oil capsules. For my last dog, I gave him one every other day. I just punctured the capsule and squirted it into his food.

I take flax seed oil supplements. But I wouldn't recommend flax seed instead of fish oil. If I could, I'd take fish oil, but I can't because I'm a vegetarian.

Kathyy · 10-25-2009, 10:53 PM

Dogaware.com
"Recommended amount is 1000 mg fish oil (containing 300 mg combined EPA/DHA) per 30 pounds (14 kg) of body weight."

For your little guy just look for ones that offer that amount in 2 gelcaps.

Sassy gets 4 times that amount due to her compromised health. Best to use gel caps as the Omega 3 is very fragile outside the fish. I squirt it into Max's food and pill Sassy as she has decided after eating them for 10 years thay they are nasty.

deege39 · 10-25-2009, 11:04 PM

Well, I don't really know Donatello's "medical history" since I adopted him at a shelter and they couldn't give me much information... All I know is he's allergic to corn... So I do my best to avoid giving him corn in any form, starches, ground, or syruped.

I appreciate all the advice, and I will hold off on giving him any type of supplement before he gets another check-up.

I know there is a lot of controversy about what's in dog food, how well it works in the food and what not, so that's kind of why I was asking if I should try supplementing...

sassykzt · 10-26-2009, 12:51 AM

[quote=Kathyy;656375]Dogaware.com
"Recommended amount is 1000 mg fish oil (containing 300 mg combined EPA/DHA) per 30 pounds (14 kg) of body weight."

For your little guy just look for ones that offer that amount in 2 gelcaps.

Exactly! I have had my 3 Westies on fish oil caps for the past 12 yrs due to skin issues( they are all 13 and in perfect health). Until I found a vet versed in nutrition ( very few are-- they just go w/ all the literature/ free food samples the dog food companies send). He firmly believed in NO steriods ( most vets see this as a quick fix) ,fish oil caplets, and grain free food w/ high meat content. I also feed my little monsters a lb. of wild salmon/ week. All the skin issues disappeared and haven't had an incident in 12 yrs. So, yes, they worked for my dogs-- you can try it and see. It can't do any harm except the first day or so the stool may be a bit runny.

Labsnothers · 10-26-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canteloupe

Nope. Fish oil is far too delicate to survive the extruding process. Fish oil isn't even supposed to be exposed to air, let alone processed the way it is in dog food.

I feed kibble and supplement with fish oil capsules. For my last dog, I gave him one every other day. I just punctured the capsule and squirted it into his food.

I take flax seed oil supplements. But I wouldn't recommend flax seed instead of fish oil. If I could, I'd take fish oil, but I can't because I'm a vegetarian.

Where did you find that bit of misinformation on fish oils not not surviving extrusion? I happen to be a chemist that worked for 10 years in the paint industry. I have boiled fish oil all day at 360 degrees F without damaging the fatty acids. I don't care if you can post 1000 links saying it won't take the heat. Protected from oxygen, it can be processed at high temperatures. Just more junk science. You really need to treat your sources more skeptically.

lulusmom · 10-26-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Where did you find that bit of misinformation on fish oils not not surviving extrusion? I happen to be a chemist that worked for 10 years in the paint industry. I have boiled fish oil all day at 360 degrees F without damaging the fatty acids. I don't care if you can post 1000 links saying it won't take the heat. Protected from oxygen, it can be processed at high temperatures. Just more junk science. You really need to treat your sources more skeptically.

I have no clue as to how fish oil holds up to the extrusion process. As a matter of fact, I have no idea what extrusion means; however, I place a lot of stock in scientific data. Your claim may be absolutely correct; however, to ask anybody to disregard links to 1 or 2 scientific studies, much less 1,000, with results that are contrary to your own undocumented findings is rather audacious.

I am not being flippant with these question but as a chemist, what prompted you to boil fish oil all day and how did you ascertain that the fatty acids were not affected by this process. I personally could not find anything on the internet regarding extrusion process' affect on omega fatty acids. Can either you or cantelope provide supporting documentation for your claims? We are all here to help each other and when statements are made, they should be verifiable for any number of reasons but mostly because our dogs rely on us to do what's right. For those of us that may not be educated on a certain subject, it is confusing when members have opposing positions so some supporting documentation is always helpful. Thank you.

Labsnothers · 10-26-2009, 02:00 PM

Links to good scientific data are few and far between or at least ones available for free. Unfortunately, too many people can't tell the difference between the Whole Dog Journal and the JAVMA.

dieterherzog · 10-26-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labsnothers

Links to good scientific data are few and far between or at least ones available for free. Unfortunately, too many people can't tell the difference between the Whole Dog Journal and the JAVMA.

What does that even mean and how the heck does that even pertain to this thread?

I'm sorry but every time I click on a question trying to learn something, you're always there spewing some nonsense about how scientific data are far and in between and how dog owners are confused between astro turf and real science. I don't think I've seen you offer any study other than links you've googled on the internet. If you are so well read and you have access to all these great scientific information and if your dog guide school has an incredible science library, please I beg of you, retype some of those studies or scientific articles for our benefit and put us out of this "Dogs survive and thrive on Pro Plan" misery.

lulusmom · 10-26-2009, 04:28 PM

Uh okay....I have a really good idea about the differences between the Whole Dog Journal and the JAVMA but since I don't subscribe to either, I can't say for sure; however, it's a moot point in relation to my questions.

I am an avid researcher when it comes to matters that affect my dog and their medical conditions. I can usually find abstracts that set forth pertinent information on a particular subject so I am very disappointed that you were unable to find anything that supports your claim. Perhaps cantelope can provide something but no matter, I'll see if I can't find something for me and anyone else that may be interested. In the meantime, perhaps if you can answer my original question below, it could help me understand a whole lot more. I find it absolutely fascinating that you as a chemist boiled fish oil all day long and were able to determine its affects on fatty acids. This is really interesting stuff to me and I am as anal as you can get so please do respond further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lulusmom

I am not being flippant with these question but as a chemist, what prompted you to boil fish oil all day and how did you ascertain that the fatty acids were not affected by this process.

Labsnothers · 10-26-2009, 10:31 PM

It is how you make paint. Just as I won't dig up a web site showing 2 + 2 = 4, I am not going to waste time finding a citation of basic science.

Hallie · 10-26-2009, 10:58 PM

I don't know anything about extruding things when making dog food or about how fish oil holds up in high temps, but I do know that Hallie's skin issues get a heck of alot better when she's put on a fish based dog food. When on Wellness super5mix ocean whitefish she did great and when I switched to the chicken formula it all went down hill.

lulusmom · 10-27-2009, 02:27 AM

Boiling fish oil all day and then confirming that there has been no effect on fatty acids is how you make paint huh? NOT!!!

At the risk of being banned, I have to tell you that you are, without a doubt, the biggest bag of wind I have run across in a very long time. It is at times like this that I can literally hear the whistling of wind from the blowback of your b.s.

I highly recommend that you give careful consideration to the information you share with others here. Not everybody is as smart as you think you are and they may just take your word for things....to the detriment of their dog. The least you can do is make a feeble attempt to find appropriate resources or references to substantiate your claims, especially when asked by other members who are here to learn.

For those members that would like to read about the extrusion processing affect on dry canine diets, please use link below:

http://library.wur.nl/wda/dissertations/dis4394.pdf

Labsnothers · 10-27-2009, 07:06 AM

The link didn't work for me. No big deal. Dog foods are formulated and tested based on the final product, not what is going into it. That may mean starting with a excess of heat sensitive nutrients in order to end up with enough.

Just because you find something on a website that sounds good to you, doesn't mean it is true.

lulusmom · 10-27-2009, 08:08 AM

Unbelievable!!!!!!!

Leroy&Lucy'sMom · 10-27-2009, 11:40 AM

Leroy has been on fish oil before (last dec. we started on Sam's club fish oil for dry skin). It worked great for him for about 2 months, and then all of a sudden he started throwing up. He eats EVERYTHING i give him, never is a picky eater, but he refused to take the fish oil. Leroy has a very sensitive stomach (even though he eats a fish diet, u figured the oil would be okay) and his body started to reject it.
But it did help with the dry skin greatly and will make most dog's coats very shiny and healthy.

It may work for some dogs and may not... all depends.

If you want to try it out, get it from sam's club or costco, way cheaper there. Since He's so small i would go with just one capsule per day with food.