Roe's got Dire Rear - worried

Mac'N'Roe

This is the rundown of the last few weeks and potential causes?

2/26/08 - Switched to Canidae. I did it in one week...mixing 25/75 for two days, 50/50 for two, 75/25 for two. They seemed to handle this fine...no loose stool problems.
3/4/08 - completed switch to Canidae
3/9/08 - dog park - Roe drinking muddy water
3/9 or 3/10 - ran out of Safflower oil - substituted with 1 tsp EVO once daily
3/13/08 - Roe had first Amitraz dip for demodectic mange
3/14/08 - Roe began getting up in middle of night to go potty
3/15/08 - Roe up again in middle of night to poop (loose stool)
3/15/08 - Roe gets marrow bone
3/16/08 - no more EVO but Roe's still loose
3/17/08 - didn't really notice diarrhea...may have been loose but seemed better
3/18/08 - gave Mac'n'Roe nylabone dog treat in the evening
3.19.08 - watery diarrhea in am, afternoon, night
3.20.08 - this morning was still watery.

So, I'm puzzled. I thought it was the EVO, so I stopped that. Then I thought it may have been the nylabone treat that upset her tummy because immediately after that she had diarrhea - bad. How long would it take for this to clear up if this is its the treat? I'm worried now that it may be either the amitraz dip (it's been a week though), giardia, or something else. She seems to feel fine..not really lethargic or doesn't seem to be in pain. She's holding it fine...she's not spontaneously going to the bathroom all over the house or anything.

Any thoughts? She's schedule to go to the vet on Monday (for another dip)

Edit: okay, I called the vet. She's going to get some meds ready for Roe (general diarrhea meds) and also suggested mixing half/half plain cooked white rice with one or two meals to help the meds along. She said it could have been the dip, but in any case, this should clear it up. Most puppies will get de-sensitize to the treatment after the first one. I think its a combination of all of those things. I will not give her the nylabone treat again though, that's for sure.

dleggs15

AWW POor baby Roe =0( sounds like you shoudl try what hte vet recommended and see if that helps! I could see that dip possibly doing something like that..but also giving the bland diet should help with the runny stools! i sure hope this is over soon for the both of you..we never like our babies being sick!

Mac'N'Roe

Thanks dleggs15...I know...I hate seeing her not feeling well. I'll let you guys know how she's doing.

Shalva

It sounds like there is alot going on and the general stress on her body could cause the "dire rear"

if Roe were my dog.....

I would fast...... for a half day at least and let his system settle down.....

I would do the hamburg or boiled chicken and rice

I would add in some immodium.... you can get the dosage from your vet.....

and I wouldn't try kibble again until you have a few days of not dire rear .....

Evo and Innova products as well as Canidae can be to rich for some dogs.... I don't recall if Roe has a tendency toward upset stomach and dire rear but if so you may have to find a milder food like California natural which has fewer ingredients.

just my two cents for what its worth
s

Mac'N'Roe

Thanks Shalva...I appreciate your feedback. Yes, I agree a lot going on with her. I got some medication from the vet (sarasalinex..or something like that) for diarrhea and I mixed 1/2 cup of rice with half of her usual portion of food tonight. Maybe I'll fast her tomorrow morning and see how she does.

Questions...

Does that mean no water too? It seems like Ron E mentioned limiting water and food in another thread I read.

Also, with the hamburg - I assume this is cooked? and how much would I give her? Each meal she gets 2 cups of Canidae.

How long do I give them if they seem like their stool is a little soft with Canidae? Do I keep them on it a while to see if they get used to it?

She's only five months...and I haven't seen anything so far that would indicate a sensitive stomach...but i haven't really given her too much. I hope it's not the food...I really like this brand...but I guess it's how they like it. I'll keep an eye on both of them with regards to the Canidae and see how that goes.

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Shalva

yes limit water as well..... you can give her a quarter cup or so every couple three hours just to keep her going but you want her whole system to calm down..... I have to say that the second I see "dire rear" I fast my dogs.... it is the first thing I do.

five months is prime age for food intolerances to show up ...... so you need to see how it goes but
for bland diet.....

boiled rice and boiled hamburger/ or boiled chicken.....
mix them together.....
let cool and then for the first meal after you fast give about a cup to a cup and a half see if the stool firms up and if she is able to maintain a firm stool and then keep her on that for a few days..... you can certainly increase the food to her regular amount if you see that she is doing better......

then once her system is settled down..... (you may not even need the medicine, it may settle by itself once you fast her) then you can try her on a small amount of the kibble you want her on..... maybe a cup..... see how she does and give the hamburg and rice at the otehr meal and move slowly back to regular kibble over a day or two.....

I would give about a week on the new food and see how it goes..... if the stool is still soft after about a week or so then you can decide whether to give it more time or try another food......

I don't know much about kibble other than that I have a dog that can't eat kibble at all.....
I know that Innova, canidae and solid gold can be to rich for some dogs with to many ingredients..... California natural is one that we use if we are desperate and that has fewer ingredients and sometimes dogs who have trouble wtih the richer kibbles can tolerate it better

hope this helps
s

Mac'N'Roe

Hamburg....I haven't heard that since I lived in Maine. I liked to have fell over the first time I heard someone say hamburg...

Shalva

what do you call it????
hamburger
hamburg
minced beef.....
lolol teasing me
s

Mac'N'Roe

I've always said hamburger. lol. it's not that different. But, that was one of those things that just hit my giggle button. I would giggle everytime I heard it. I'm from the south...I had just NEVER heard anyone call it anything other than hamburger. naive I guess...

Mac'N'Roe

UPDATE.

So, Roe had kibble/rice with her first round of meds last night. She still had diarrhea this morning. I fasted her this morning, but did give her the meds. She handled not eating pretty good..she's pretty verbal when she wants something. She must of not been feeling well..otherwise she'd of been giving me a talking!!! I gave her limited water (which she was okay with). Typically she'll bark at me when she's thirsty (she's a demanding little girl ). She slept most of the morning and when I woke her to go potty (just peed) before I left...she was acting kind of strange. When I returned, she went potty...but no bowel movement. She was very lethargic this afternoon (mind you, Mac left this morning too..so she's a little sad about that I would assume). I began to worry about dehydration, and the inside of her cheeks felt dry. I took her to the vet (very close) and the doc looked at her quickly (actually in the waiting room) and said she's fine...probably just misses mac and needs some tlc. She suggested to also give her chicken broth if I was concerned about dehydration...but she looked okay. I took her for a short slow walk, and she started to perk up. I fed her boiled chicken/white rice (a little more than a cup). I also gave her some of the chicken broth from cooking the chicken. She LOVED it. We then went outside and I actually got her to play a little. Seems like she's feeling much better. She hasn't pooped yet...I'm assuming this is a good thing. It's about time I take her out.

Thanks for your suggestions. Hopeing this is about to pass.

jchantelau

Hope Roe is doing better, poor Roe.

Mac'N'Roe

Thanks jchantelau. Roe's feeling much better today. She's back to herself. We slept on the couch last night and she's getting 100% attention, which she loves. She's really enjoying the bland diet I'm feeding her...and she finally went poop late this am and it was solid! a little soft, but atleast it was solid. I took her to the dog park for 20 minutes before class..and she was back to normal.

Shalva...thank you for your advice!

Shalva

good to hear things are going well.
s

the mama

The only time I ever gave Lucy a nylabone (six years ago), the next morning she had nasty, loud, foamy, gross diarrhea.

I was so glad we'd gone for a walk in the morning, otherwise it would have been all over my tiny apartment patio. It lasted for about an hour, intermittently. She was mortified, I could tell, and I couldn't even begin to think how I'd clean-up after her!

She doesn't get nylabones anymore, either.

Mac'N'Roe

Awww. Poor Lucy. Roe's lasted for almost three days. She's much better now though. Her poops are solid now, more solid then ever actually. I'm loving the bland diet for her. I'll be phasing her back to kibble now. Hope that works. She's really enjoying the bland diet meals.

Mac'N'Roe

Hey guys. So, Saturday Roe was feeling GREAT. We had a big day and she pooped solid and firm all day. I fed her a bland diet with no kibble Friday evening and both meals on Saturday. She did real well with this and her stomach seemed to be better. Her last med was Saturday morning (she had three doses).

I mixed one cup of kibble in with her meal this morning to see how she'd do. Later that morning, she had soft stool, not watery, but very soft and mucoussy. Her eyes are weeping a small amount as well, and generally her mood and energy level is low. She could be tired from yesterday...but my guy feeling is it's the food. I'm not sure what to do. Should I continue with only a bland diet or keep trying with the kibble mixed? If I continue with the bland diet, which I'm fine with, I want to make sure she's getting enough nutrients. She's acting as if she's hungry, so I'm not sure if she just really likes the bland food...or if I'm not giving her enough. I just want her to be better!

Patt

Personally I would keep her on a bland diet for a few more days. Just to make sure her system is doing well. Than introduce kibble a very small amount at a time one cup is too much. If she returns to soft stools than I would change the kibble. Every dog is different what food works for some doesn't for others. It's a good possibility she can't handle the kibble you have now. Good luck.

Shalva

I agree with this....

I woudl caution that the watery eyes, and loose stools look like it could be an allergy issue to me..... but I would keep her on the bland diet for a few more days and see how it goes.....
s

Mac'N'Roe

Okay, yes I agree. She's doing so well on that...I'll stick with it.

Mac'N'Roe

Hi. An update on Roe. She's still on the bland diet (going on five days now). Her energy level is great, her stool is firm. It looks different (small and blacker than normal), but atleast she's firm and she's feeling well. I haven't noticed any mucous or blood. So, I think she's doing better. I am still noticing a persistent fluid in the eyes (what do you call this?) Its usually whitish (I don't have a sense of smell (called anosmia), so I haven't noticed an odor). I'll ask my BF, but unfortunately, his nose isn't that great either. Could this be just regular allergies? It's spring here and there is definitely pollen out in the air. She also does this snorting thing sometimes...almost like she's stopped up.

So, I want to try to start phasing in kibble into her diet. I'm reluctant to do the Canidae. I think I'm going to try California Natural (thanks Shalva for the recommendation). I like that it's simple. I'll start on the Chicken and Rice Puppy formula (right?). So, I decrease her bland diet a bit and mix a little of the kibble in, right? How much, like a quarter of a cup to start? (Shoot, that means I'll be cooking for her for a while, huh?) How would you suggest I do the transition?

FYI - mac is doing fine on the Canidae. (Although, he's a little jealous of Roe getting homecooked meals. I'm struggling with that and he's being a little picky) I want them on the same food..so I'm going to switch him too. I'll use the same measurements with his switch as I do Roe's. Nice and slow.

I appreciate your suggestions!!!

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