Thank God someone's out there today!

jude · 12-03-2006, 04:22 PM

I'm just sick! One of my rescue dogs is extremely timid; it took several months before she stopped squealing and peeing when my husband bent down to pet her. Since she's an outside dog and we have a very busy road nearby, we got an invisible fence for her..she has about seven acres to roam around the house. Because she's so timid, it was extremely easy to train her, and it's worked very well for over a year.

Yesterday when I came home, I was surprised to see that she'd mosied across the fence boundary. I just put her collar back on her! I should have taken her out on a leash until she heard the warning beep, but I just wasn't thinking! (How STUPID!) I looked out the window just in time to see her trotting after my husband's truck, and before I could get to the door, she hit the boundry, yelped and flew into the air like a dolphin. As the day went on, I noticed she had a strange, tentative bark (hasn't barked since then) but she ate a good dinner.

As the day went on, she became listless and I kept her inside last night to watch her. She drank copious amounts of water last night and this morning she'd thrown up her dinner and won't eat anything. I called the emergency vet, and he said that as long as she's not vomiting a lot and doesn't have diarreah, it's not an emergency and to just bring her in tomorrow.

I will, of course, but in the meantime, what do you think? Can the fence actually hurt her throat, or is it just that she's so timid. She did go through twice early on in training without acting like this. Do you suppose she has a virus and that the timing with the fence incident was just coincidental?

What can I do for her until I can get her into the vet in the morning, any suggestions? Thank so much for being online right now!

jude · 12-03-2006, 09:15 PM

Thanks for all the response. I really appreciate it.

tirluc · 12-03-2006, 09:38 PM

w/out being there to have seen all that happened and such and seeing the dog itself, it's quite hard to say what the problem could be........are you sure there is nothing in her throat or roof of mouth? they may be able to drink but alot of times can't eat or can't keep stuff down....

cshellenberger · 12-04-2006, 12:24 AM

Jude, Electric (invisable) fences can do alot of damage, not just physical, but mental. Please, for her sake put up a run for her and take that collar off!

http://www.positivedogs.com/electronic_fencing.html

tirluc · 12-04-2006, 10:10 AM

first, let me say that i am not "into" invisible fencing.....i have no need for it as my dogs don't leave the yard and are never out unattended.....

but i REALLY have to disagree w/ this article in many aspects......

first, the "shock" the dog gets is not as severe as this person makes it out to be.....have you ever touched and electric wire for a pasture? it's not any more than that.....

second, the collars are programmed to give a AUDIBLE signal b/4 they even get to the "shock" part.....so the dog learns quite quickly that when they hear the signal they are to stay back in that area.....

Quote:

He may also become fearful of new places – especially if you use one of the “dummy” collars and leave it on all of the time. Think about it: He has a real or dummy collar on and you take him to a new location – maybe even a training class. He is now freaked because he doesn’t know where the boundaries are and is terrified of being shocked. He moves around slowly and cautiously because he doesn’t know where the “safe” places are.

to my understanding, you are not supposed to leave either the actual collar or the "dummy" collar on away from home.....they are there for the fence area only.....

Quote:

You have an electric fence. It may keep your dog within the boundaries, but does it keep out rotten kids that want to torment your dog, other dogs – good ones and “bad” ones, cats, skunks, squirrels, bears, coyotes, fox or deer? Of course not. If your dog decides to chase these things and braves the electric current running through his neck, do you really think he’ll come back and risk more electric current? I think not!

this is the only reason that i am opposed to the invisible fencing......i have seen this happen too many times (not the dog not wanting to come back but the going thru b/c of excitement to begin w/).....

Quote:

Let’s say you leave your dog outside, unattended and it starts to rain. You don’t know it is raining because you are involved with something else or you aren’t home in the first place. These collars malfunction quite often and then whammo! You now have either a dead dog or one with so much neck damage, that you are now spending thousands of dollars in vet bills. Plus you will now have a completely and utterly freaked out dog whenever it rains.

anyone leaving their dog outside totally unattended should be shot to begin w/......anything can happen to a dog w/ ANY kind of fencing (they can jump and leave or get their collar hung up, they could dig under and leave, etc.)....

Quote:

You bring your dog inside and his electric collar is still on. Your dog walks past the microwave or other such appliance. There have been cases where appliances have set the collars to shock the dogs. The dog feels intense pain as the shock rips through his neck. Voila! He is now freaked out with common appliances. Or perhaps part of the fence line is close to a room he is in and he gets zapped with an electric shock. Now he is completely freaked out because there is no safe place for him to be in.

everyone i know of w/ this type of fencing removes the collar from the dog when inside as it tells you right in the instructions that this can happen (at least it did in the ones i read)......so if the owner has installed the fencing properly and follow the instructions, this isn't going to happen

a friend of mine just installed one themselves for their 2 dogs and neither one of the dogs has become aggressive toward anyone or anything (even each other)......they go out and play in the yard for a few min. w/ each other and are just as happy of dogs as they were b/4 the line was put in.....

i think this person that wrote this is either grasping at straws w/ something they know nothing about or had a bad experience w/ a fencing that either was installed incorrectly or used incorrectly......

JMO on the matter

cshellenberger · 12-04-2006, 05:46 PM

We had a German Shepard die due to the shock collar. My experiance says otherwise!

Further more if the dog was 'knocked backward' and was later disoriented, it clearly was physically injured.

Furthermore the invisable fence gives NO protection against people and other animals. The dog is still vulnerable to attack and theft.

jude · 12-05-2006, 08:51 AM

First of all, I apologize for getting snarky on Sunday...I was just in a panic. I'm not too much better off now, but I'd like to know if you have any ideas as to what kind of liquid nutrition I can use on Sissy until she can hold down solid food.

The vet says that the fence incident had nothing to do with her illness, but I'm not so certain. For sure, the "shock" is slight, but she's also very timid. For those of you who might think she's undergone continuous "correction", well, she hasn't even worn the collar since training, which only lasted a week or so. For the past year and a half, she hasn't gone within ten feet of the boundary and has about seven acres in which to roam, with our house being in the middle of it. She's never trapped in bad weather, etc.

The vet gave her a couple of antibiotic injections and an injection of a steroidal anti-inflammatory. On one hand, she's more alert and the fever is gone, she's still drinking water but she can't eat...this will be the third day. I hand fed her a very few pieces of chicken yesterday and she threw it up last night....also had an accident which looked like a lot of colored water.

My concern is, I don't know if her problem is due to the illness or the antibiotic. And since he doesn't know if the problem is viral or bacterial, why dose with antibiotic, which will kill everything in her stomach?

Can any of you recommend some sort of liquid nutrition that I can get down her throat with a syringe?

tirluc · 12-05-2006, 09:17 AM

you might want to try baby food......a dog of ours had stomach problems for a while and this is what the vet recommended for her.......make sure it's the stuff for first feedings and make sure it's balanced out.....

it's not really liquidy but it's soft so she can lap it and it is salt/preservative free

tirluc · 12-05-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cshellenberger

We had a German Shepard die due to the shock collar. My experiance says otherwise!

Further more if the dog was 'knocked backward' and was later disoriented, it clearly was physically injured.

Furthermore the invisable fence gives NO protection against people and other animals. The dog is still vulnerable to attack and theft.

as i said, things can happen w/ any type of fencing and it can happen w/ any type of "training" device......people die everyday driving their cars, so maybe we should all quit driving.....children get hurt everyday on playgrounds, maybe we should keep our kids to home.....it's life and things happen....

and the dog wasn't "knocked backwards" she jumped and yelped....which is a very common reaction in a sensitive dog......my male BC would "shut down" just like he does w/ any type of correction.....he's that sensitive

and i did say that that was the main reason i don't care for the invisible fencing, myself.....

but i have never seen anything "bad" come of using them....like i have w/ other kinds of fencing (being hung or strangled while trying to get out, getting their head caught in a hole and panicking, etc)

mistyinca · 12-05-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirluc

you might want to try baby food......a dog of ours had stomach problems for a while and this is what the vet recommended for her.......make sure it's the stuff for first feedings and make sure it's balanced out.....

it's not really liquidy but it's soft so she can lap it and it is salt/preservative free

I don't mean to jack this thread, but I have a quick question about feeding baby food to dogs. I have some jars of those toddler chicken sticks, and I figured Chloe would absolutely love them. I read the ingredients, and down at the bottom, it had onion powder. I understand dogs aren't supposed to eat onions, but my guess is that it is very little. What do you think?

To tie this back in, maybe he should check ingredients for onion powder if it would be a problem.

jude · 12-05-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirluc

you might want to try baby food......a dog of ours had stomach problems for a while and this is what the vet recommended for her.......make sure it's the stuff for first feedings and make sure it's balanced out.....

it's not really liquidy but it's soft so she can lap it and it is salt/preservative free

Great idea! I'm sure she won't eat it, but I can dilute it and use the syringe. I need to know if she can tolerate liquid nutrition. This is the third day of her not eating and I'm really worried. I've decided that I'm not going to give her an antibiotic today...that stuff on an empty stomach just has to be causing problems, and she still doesn't have a fever.

I'm really beginning to think that she may have some sort of obstruction.

tirluc · 12-05-2006, 10:59 AM

it is my understanding that onion of any sort, in any amount should be avoided......it can cause anemia in dogs and my vet says that, even tho choc. can be dangerous dogs usually handle it well but onion is not the same.....ask your vet and see what they say......garlic is also a problem but can be given in small quantities......

jude · 12-05-2006, 11:01 AM

She actually only wore the collar for the first few days of training...hasn't worn it for over 1-1/2 years. My mistake was in not taking her out on a leash immediately after putting the collar on her. While I don't think this has caused her whole problem, I don't believe in coincidence, either. I think that it has aggravated a condition that she already had (like a sore throat) or maybe stressed her enough into letting a virus take hold. Don't know.

I would rather have enough $$$ to fence in seven acres, but we don't and this has been the best alternative we've found, and it sure beats finding her dead in the road.

cshellenberger · 12-05-2006, 11:09 AM

I wouldn't fence in that much, just the immeadiate area around the house so she's kept close unless you are out wit her. You may even be able to get away with cheap Tpost and coated wire for that area. Sorry, but after my experiance losing a dog and seeing dogs become fearful due to shock collars used for this and other things I am very wary.

jude · 12-05-2006, 11:21 AM

I agree, Tirluc. I don't know how many times I've said, "This is the best money we ever spent." We live in one of the most backward regions of the country, and like I said, I see a different dead dog or cat lying in the road everytime I drive anywhere. People here think it's normal..some of the local kids actually aim for them. All my animals (three dogs and a cat) have been 'drop-offs'...another charming local custom, and saved from almost certain death.

The fence doesn't keep out other dogs, but Sissy won't follow them back across the road, either. She also won't chase anything over it. That's why I was so surprised to see her on the wrong side of it when I got home. She was with Ethel, the lab mix, and they were just mosying along sniffing around. I think that she just didn't realize where she was. That's not even a concern, though, at this point.

I believe you mentioned checking out the roof of her mouth..I haven't and I'm almost certain that the vet didn't, either. I'll check that, then give her diluted baby food this afternoon. If doesn't hold that down, we're going back to the vet tomorrow and I think I'll ask for x-rays.

tirluc · 12-05-2006, 01:46 PM

another thing that you can try is yogurt for the bacteria levels in her stomach....antibiotcs kill not only the bad but the good bacteria and this might also be causing the upset stomach.....another thing that works is canned pumpkin.....it's usually used to slowclear up diarrhea, but it also helps w/ upset stomachs.....

jude · 12-05-2006, 03:23 PM

I gave her some acidophilus dissolved in water by syringe, and I did not give her an antibiotic today...I hate the shotgunning of antibiotics "just in case"...like you said, it destroys the balance of flora in the whole system. Right now I'm trying a little pedialite by syringe every half hour or so, and she is not pleased. I think it might be indicative of something if she can hold down liquid nutrition but not solid. I'm taking her in again tomorrow and I'm going to ask the vet to focus on finding some sort of obstruction.

Dogged · 12-05-2006, 04:39 PM

If this isn't going away, you need to be doing more to figure out what is happening now, like a blood test and x-rays.

I usually recommend Gerber or Beechnut plain chicken baby food. No chicken and rice, or noodles or anything, just the meat. They usually like it and it is easy on their tummy.

jude · 12-08-2006, 04:57 PM

Well, anyone know anything about an enlarged cecum? Sissy just had an exploratory surgery today and this is all he found. He said that it could be caused by worms, but he hasn't seen any evidence of them, but it's possible that this could be the cause of her vomiting.

Do any of you have favorite sites I might check to do some reading up on this? I did a search, but only pulled up extremely technical papers designed for vets and most of them involved rats, not dogs.