Lactation Question!!???!!

sosa1818

My 5 year old hound dog had 6 puppies Nov 14, this is her first litter, and she still does not have much milk coming in. The puppies feed all the time and constantly tug at the nipples. Is there anything I can give her to help increase her milk supply, and if not, what is the best way to supplement. I am going to call the vet on Monday, but I want to get a start on the problem before the puppies began to lose weight (which they haven't yet).
^This was a SUPRISE litter, we rescued her from a person that had way too many dogs, so I am freakin out just a little. I started on Purina puppy chow, a week before she gave birth, was when we found out she was pregnant, and I always have fresh water and food available to her..

Curbside Prophet

Has the mama dog been eating and drinking?

http://www.sniksnak.com/doghealth/orphaned.html

sosa1818

Yea, she has been eating 3 x what she used to eat, and she drinks when she is thirsty, I really have to force her out of the whelping box to do anything, and if I don't want to fight with her i bring it to her.

britishbandit

How do you know she doesn't have much milk? Are you having to bottle feed the pups? Have you taken them to the vet (and the mama dog)?

Keep an eye on the weight of the pups, if they are healthy, and gaining weight, without you having to bottle feed, then the mother likely has an adequate milk supply.

If you aren't bottle feeding, and suspect the pups might not be getting enough milk, try bottle feeding them. Unless they are sick, if they're hungry, they'll take a bottle.

Call your vet, ask him/her these questions too, and if you haven't done so already, please get those pups in for a check-up.

Shalva

pups should not go for a check up the last place you want newborn unvaccinated puppies is at a vets office so as long as you are weighing them and they are gaining and everyone seems content then leave them alone.

Milk can take up to a week to come in and the colostrum that they are getting now is very important, once again as long as nobody is losing weight then let them suck that will help bring the milk in

You should be weighing puppies daily at least once a day and logging that weight...... a postal scale or a hanging fish scale like at walmart for the fishermen is a good option with a bag hanging off to put the puppies in.

I think that you will find the milk will come in, in a few days..... not to worry at this point..... as long as all are gaining and content.....

remember to keep the box warm as a chilled puppy is a dead puppy so make sure to have the box at about 80 -90 degrees..... a heat lamp does well but make sure that your bitch doesn't stay under it to long as she can get heat stroke easily. I turn the light off when she is in the pen and turn it back on when she is out.

Screaming puppies are uncomfortable puppies so keep an eye on that...... you may not need to worry now.... but in the summer I had two litters of really irritated puppies and I found that they were to hot so just keep that in mind

try to get your girl to drink as drinking water will help the milk to come in.

ummmm that is all I can think of for now......
if you have any question i would be happy to help

but no don't bring healthy content puppies to a vet filled with germs
s

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britishbandit

Hmmm, really? Newborn pups aren't about to be put on the ground and in areas where they can catch diseases. LOL And if the clinic is any good, everything in the exam areas is disinfected. Good God, how would people ever have their newborns tails docked, and duclaws removed without taking the pups to the vet at 3-5 days of age? I think you're blowing it way out of proportion.

The fact that the OP got a dog and has had to suddenly deal with raising a litter unexpectidly makes it all the more important for them to be seen by a vet.

Shalva

yes really, think about all of the germs that go around at a vet clinic, especially with the rash of kennel cough happening lately. There is absolutely no way that I would take a newborn litter of puppies to the vet if I didn't have to. I think there is a huge difference between having to take a dog to the vet to have dewclaws done (whihc I might add many breeders do themselves) and tails docked, and to bring them just because..... and while newborns absolutely are born in unsanitary places all the time (and many of them die) this litter was not born in an unsanitary place.

The fact that the original poster has a content litter of puppies who are gaining in weight is an indication that these pups are doing fine and don't need to go to a place that has the potential to be hazardous.

When you have your first litter and you hold those little lives in your hands then you go right ahead an tell me how I am over reacting. Until that time I really wish people who don't breed would refrain from giving breeding advice.

the original poster should find a breeder in her area and get assistance from another breeder. Breeders know significantly more about this process than vets do...... I once asked my vet some basic whelping questions and his response to me was that they only see newborns and bitches in whelp when there is a problem and he has very little experience with a normal litter and normal whelping. I have said this a million times, but vets know about medicine and breeders know about husbandry.

if there are no indications that there is anything wrong with the puppies then there is no way that I would take them to a vets office......

S

wabanafcr

I would not take my newborns to a vet, either, unless there was some sign of real emergency, and then I'd take them first thing in the morning before any other dogs were there.

Vets offices are NOT disinfected all day long. Exam tables are wiped, equipment is cleaned (like the otoscopes), and floors are swept, but having worked in a vet's office, it is not common practice to disinfect everything in an exam room between every visit. Another thing to keep in mind is that airborne viruses are potentially lethal to newborns--including kennel cough--and all the disinfecting of surfaces will not prevent that from lingering in the air.

Puppies that are nursing, have activated sleep (muscles should twitch as they sleep--lots of jerking and twitching is good!), are gaining in weight and quiet do not need a vet visit. If the pups seem agitated, cry or scream, or the mom is distressed, then you would need to try something different or call a vet.

Of course, the OP is free to do as he/she feels is right, and others are free to disagree, but I, personally, would not make it a matter of course to take my newborn pups to the vet. After having raised a dozen Flatcoat litters with no neonatal losses, I think I have some experience in this area! LOL!

Sometimes milk takes a few days to come in, and can be difficult to gauge whether or not the milk has come down. The more the pups nurse, the more milk will be produced. Pups do tend to nurse quite often. If you feel you need to supplement, I recommend fresh goat's milk cut to about 50% with distilled water and then bottle fed. I am not fond of the puppy milk replacers, but I know that others have had success with them. If you need to try tube feeding, please get someone that knows how to SHOW you how to do it--don't just try it on your own.

britishbandit

And I in turn wish that people like you who do breed didn't think they were all high an mighty and know "it all". I'm glad that not all breeders have an attitude like you, and launch into attack mode when someone says something that you don't agree with. I have had a litter of pups, not that I'm proud of that, and no, I'm not a breeder. I got LOTS of advice from breeders and veterinarians, a few you probably know yourself from other forums. I DID take those pups in at 3 days of age to be docked and have their duclaws removed, and go figure, none of them died from being submitted to the "germ filled vet office". This person obviously isn't a breeder, and has questions, probably (no offense to the OP) doesn't know a heck of a lot about what to look for if a pup was in trouble or not in the best of health. Where a vet could most certainly tell.
I may not be a breeder, but I'd bet you that more newborn pups die from health problems because they weren't checked out than those that ever catch anything from being taken to a vet. And I know enough people that breed and have studied it long enough to know a "little" bit about it all, so don't think that simply because I choose not to breed, that my opinion and statements should count for nothing.

If the vets in your area aren't sanitary and disinfect everything after each exam, then that's terrible, but I KNOW my vet office does.

wabanafcr

I doubt it. The chairs in the waiting room? The waiting room floor? All counters and surfaces? The bathroom? The doorknobs? The walls in the exam room and the waiting room? The curtains/blinds? The receptionist counter, where dogs put their paws and people put their kittens and let them walk around? The scale? Each dog that comes in has an owner that most likely carries the same germs, etc., on clothing and shoes. No vet office disinfects everything after every exam. Not one. There isn't time and they don't have the manpower. And even if they did and could, that still would not eliminate the risk of airborne viruses. My vet's office is quite sanitary, thanks, and they are extra-careful when it comes to parvo cases and other extremely contagious diseases., but I'm still not bringing my newborns there for anything less than an emergency.

There may be an additional risk if the mother dog has not been vaccinated properly, which is definitely possible since she is a recent rescue. If she has no real antibodies to pass on to her pups, they would be even more susceptible to disease than they otherwise would be.

I'm glad your pups were okay after you took them in for their dews and tails, and I absolutely agree that most would be fine, but the risk is there and I'm not one to take it with my newborns unless there is an emergency. I certainly wouldn't take the rist just for a simple question of whether or not she is producing milk. If the pups are content and gaining weight, she is producing enough milk.

As I said, the OP is free to do what he/she feels is right, and you are free to disagree. Just stating my opinion.

007Dogs

If you mamma dog still needs help with milk production you can add cottage cheese to her food. I add both cottage cheese and puppy milk replacer to my girls food. I also feed a high quality puppy food to the moms.
As breeder and someone who has worked at a vet clinic, I do not recommend bringing newborns to the vet unless absolutely required. I guess that is why I learned to dock tails and remove dew claws myself.

sosa1818

Thank you all for the good advice... I can see they are growing, and today I began weighing them... should they gain or is it ok to maintain? She has milk coming out, it just doesn't seem like her nipples are very full.
007Dogs-How much cottage cheese and milk replacer do you give?
I also give her a vitamin a day, is that ok?

briteday

More importantly I think you need to get her on a higher quality food than anything made by Purina. Try Innova, Wellness, Canidae...or check out our food forum on the board for many other suggestions. Find a retailer in your area that carries one of the high quality foods and they will undoubtedly carry several brands that you can choose from. If you can't find a retailer in the phone book that carries these brands, do an internet serch on any of them and look for a store locater function in the manufacturer's website.

I have also fostered litters for the shelter here. And they often supply milk replacer to add to a dog's diet. You can either sprinkle the powder on her food, or just put a bowl out every few hours for her. It's not a good idea to leave the milk replacer out at room temp for more than a couple of hours. So I usually start with a small bowl or saucer and increase the amount each time until you figure out how much she will drink. By mixing up the milk replacer powder with water you will also be adding to her fluid intake which helps milk production.

Shalva

the rule of thumb is that they should double their weight in the first week or so..... my pups took ten days..... and by that time they all had doubled.

there is also a great rice pudding recipe that you can feed your bitch on my website, the link is below..... the rice pudding is made from goats milk and is a good source of protein as well that is what I use.
remember just because they don't look like there is alot of milk doesn't mean there isn't
I would want you to watch puppy weights and report back about the weights tonight or tomm. and let us see what they look like
s

sosa1818

I am going to weigh them again tonight around 9 pm..., thanks for the recipe I'll give it a try.

Debbie P

We had a litter born in our rescue organization. I had fostered the doggie for a day, while waiting for another foster to pick her up. There was no way I wanted to deal with the birth of puppies. But just in case, the other fosters changed their minds, I had a vet tech set up to help with delivery, shots, claws, etc. This way the pups could remain at my house, with supervision from someone with more experience. Or, quite frankly, any experience ~ lol

It worked out even better. The other fosters did take her, and met a breeder, not far from their house. This breeder took care of everything. Thank God, as non of us knew what the heck we were doing.

britishbandit

No, the waiting room at my vets office isn't constantly disinfected, but the exam rooms are after every exam. Which I've personally seen them when the exam room door has opened as someone else is leaving, the assistant disinfecting the table. Even on one occasion where a muzzle had to be used on a dog that was in, she was wiping that down after as well. You also have to remember that with newborn pups, they are never on the ground in a vets office, or table for that matter, they are in a carrier of some sort (whatever you bring them in) and the only place they are apart from that are in the hands of the vet and vet assistants, that most certainly have washed and disinfected their hands. Once the tail has been docked, duclaws removed and check-up has been done, they are placed back in the carrier.

But I agree, the decision on whether or not to take them in lies in the hands of the OP. This is just my suggestion, as I feel someone it is important for someone inexperienced with newborns who was thrown into the situation without much warning to have those pups checked out. If the pups are doing fine, and the OP is sure of that, then I'd say sure, wait until it's time for shots and such before the check-up, but if there's any doubts to get them checked out. I understand that breeders who have been though all of this before not taking them in, and knowing how to handle every situation that could occur, but not someone that's never been though it before or had the time to learn and ask questions.
I also don't agree with breeders docking and removing duclaws themselves, unless of course they've taken a veterinary course. Being a breeder doesn't make you a vet, and those types of things should be left to the professionals.

007Dogs

Britishbandit, I had to sell my first litter of AKC registered Jack Russell Terriers as pets, because I allowed the vet to dock tails and remove dew claws. I now do all my tails and dew claws myself. And no I am not a vet or a vet tech. Docking tails and removing dew claws is a rather simple process but does vary from breed to breed. Larger breed dogs will usually require sutures. I have spent my entire life on a ranch or around ranch animals. No one runs to the vet everytime something needs sutured up. It just does not happen, and it is not practical. I recently help someone dock tails and remove dew claws on a rescue litter of JRT's via the internet. They came out great. It just takes someone with common sense and guidance. I was taught to do tails and dew claws by a vet, but pretty prefected my own method with my own experiances.

I recently had to take my female into the vet after giving birth 2 days previously. The puppies stayed in my van while there mother had emergency surgery to remove a retained puppy. When I returned the mother to the pups, she was wiped down with a safe disinfectant and especially her feet, even though she was wrapped in a blanket when she entered the vets office and never touched the floor(with exception to the scales to be weighed). I removed my own shoes outside so as not to bring anything from the vets office into my house. I also make it a point to take her into the vet office when I knew they would be leaving for lunch, so there would be no other clients there. In my opinion, you can never be to careful when protecting newborns and their mother from uneeded exposure to germs.

Shalva

and you think that the only places there are germs in a vets office are on those tables do you???? and the vet washes their hands .....sure ok
and what about their clothes??? what about airborne bacteria??? what about the doorknobs when you the owner opens and closes the door or the vet opens and closes the door for that matter....

do you realize that a simple airborne virus like kennel cough can kill a litter of puppies.....


s

britishbandit

And like I said, you are blowing it way out of proportion. What do you think the ratio is of pups that die from catching something at the vet are opposed to those that die at home because an inexperienced owner didn't realize a pup or the pups were in trouble? Or tried to "wait out" a problem because they thought the pup(s) wasn't in any serious danger.

And yes, I am aware of all the canine diseases, diseases of other small animals and cattle and how they are transmitted. I HAVE taken a vet tech course studying zoonoses, diseases, pathology and clinical microbiology.

That's ok, obviously we are in disagreement on this one. And it doesn't look like either of us are about to change how we feel on this.

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