Crystals in urine

flipgirl

Lexilu, I wonder why your vet wanted you to stay away from Innova...because then you wouldn't buy their prescription food or he or she has veritable knowledge of Innnova's ingredients and why they wouldn't be helpful? Only about one of the vets at the animal hospital where I work is vaguely aware of other premium foods.

Snuggles, RC Urinary SO does the job in terms of helping dissolve crystals but I was shocked that it had no meat in it. Ok, it has pork by-products but what is that? The rest is corn, corn gluten, brewers' rice etc. But many people buy it. And what kills me is, Royal Canin has raised the price of this food multiple times in the past few months. In three months, the price of a 4 kg bag went from $70 to $80! I guess corn and its gluten have gone up in price or you're paying for the two brand names, since Royal Canin and Medi-cal have merged.

MegaMuttMom

My vet told me to put Cherokee on this when he had struvite crystals in his urine, and he told me he would have to be on it FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE! Well, Cherokee itches when he eats corn so, I got a second opinion form another vet who said, not to worry, the crystals aren't hurting him. I was told to increase water, which I do by adding it to his kibble. The crystals went away on their own.

I think I already said all this earlier but, I often repeat myself LOL.

lexilu

FlipGirl - I don't really know - I had assumed it was because Lexi's been eating Innova for over a year, and it hasn't helped the crystals, so if it's not helping, switch foods. Don't think she's aware of premium foods, as she feeds Hills to her own dog.

So I've switched from Innova - now feeding Eagle Pack chicken (wet) and Orijen kibble. She's still not drinking but that wet food sure is wet, so with the antibiotics and this approach, I hope it works. Also, I'm under the impression that the crystals are common and may not be a cause for concern, but it does concern me cause I dont want them to turn to stones and require surgery.

LibertiSmith

My 9 year old cat had crystals in the urine, blockage. YES, the food really works and helps. Yes, it is a bit more expensive but it is worth it in the end. O'Ryan, my cat, wasnt put on any medication. What they did was go in, clean out his kidneys, flushed the crystals, and now he is on S&D diet food for blockage. The surgery was a bit expensive, $500.00, but I would so rather spend $30 on his cat food, then have to take him in constantly. And, if it is bad enough, or they cant catch it in time...it is very sad. I know O'Ryan is not a dog but I hope this helps!

StellaLucyDesi

Just remember that Orijen is pretty high in protein, so drinking water or using can food and water mixed in is important. Stella was eating Orijen Sr. dry only and not drinking enough (it didn't occur to me until she came down with a UTI ). Now she is getting Eagle Pack Holistic Select dry (sometimes I mix Orijen Sr. in with it), EPHS can chicken mixed with water. I also use Solid Gold Berry Balance. Maybe this is something you could try. Or some other cranberry supplement. IMO water is key! It's important to use either filtered or distilled water. After her round of antibiotics for the UTI, Stella's urine was retested and she had a neutral PH. She still had a few crystals, tho'. My vet said that this is okay if she isn't exhibiting symptoms (like straining, blood, dribbling etc.) I did buy a bag of the SO food, but decided not to feed it. Stella is doing fine now. I will continue to use the Berry Balance and I also have PH test strips that I ordered from Solid Gold. I test her urine often. She is maintaining a 6-7 PH with 7 being neutral. I've not noticed any symptoms either. I hope this helps!

kerplunk105

I adopted my German Shorthaired Pointer puppy in January. She was around 11 weeks old when I got her. The place she came from was not very clean. Ever since I have had her, she's had urinary issues. At first, I just assumed it was b/c she was young. She is 6 months old now and still having issues.

She wants to drink of water, all the time. When I take her for a walk, either on or off lead, she pee's a lot-way more then a healthy dog should. She will go pee outside, I will bring her in and sometimes 15 minutes later she will either pee on the carpet or need to go out again. However, she can hold it from 11pm-7am out of her crate and never have an accident. I limit her water after 8pm.

She is crated during the day when I'm not home. I have family that is home, and they let her out during the day. Even then, she sometimes has accidents, though this has cut down a lot in the past month.

She has been to two vets. She got a culture and sensivity test done at the first one, and it came back that her ph was a little high. She was given a round of clavamox for 14 days. I decided to switch vets, the second vet noticed that her vulva was quite recessed and thinks this may be part of the issue. She is not spayed yet.

I guess I just want any suggestions or input about what might be going on with her.

Snuggles

Yee gad. Now I am concerned. This dog we have is a very fussy eater. We tried every thing that was decent on the market for her to eat. Finally had to give her that food that the guy from "Family" started. It was soft and I hated it but it was all she would eat. Now for some crazy reason she eats this Royal Canin stuff. She had bladder stones and the biopsy showed vavious kinds of stuff in the stone. When he showed me it, I was shocked that something that big was in her tiny body. Anyway, this is what they put her on. I think it is under $20 for a smaller bag.

joyfulsoul50

Thank you all for your sharing of experiences and knowledge. I wish I'd read this awhile ago My 16 month old Bichon has had up and down urgencies and accidents for awhile--started peeing in her crate also. She doesn't drink much--unless she's been playing--then she has to go out often--or she has accidents. I see how upset she is about accidents--so, finally got urinalysis done a few weeks back--but no clear direction from the vet--yes, struvite crystals were present. Today we pushed for more of a plan and by ultrasound--she found there were a lot of crystals--no stones. So, I came home with a case of s/d--canned and 10 days of antibiotics. It sounds like she will need more antibiotics from what the postings indicate. I obviously will look for other foods, given what I've read here. I did get a tip from someone about cranberry pills not long ago--but they seemed to upset her stomach--even when I split the capsule into 2 (I put half into an empty capsule) and even into 3rds. (She didn't play much, wanted to be held and wouldn't eat for a long time). I've also started to wet her food to increase her water intake and will switch to filtered water (does anyone know if the Brita filter is adequate?) because we do have lots of minerals in the water here. I will make note of all the suggestions and begin to try them. I also had stopped the high protein treats (liver and peanut butter) mid-day when she wasn't drinking with them and then going back in her crate. Would love any feedback on the sensitivity to the cranberry capsules and the Brita filter. Thanks so much!

Hound

Finding crystals in your dog’s urine might just be a sign of canine urolithiasis. Observe other symptoms such as depression, loss of appetite, allusion to pain, vomiting, general weakness and bloody urine. This illness means that your dog is having problems in excreting urine due to irritants in the urinary tract. While there are other terms to describe this sickness, the general verdict should be to consult the vet as soon as possible.

boubou64

previous post:
Our 5 year old Sheltie was licking herself a lot. After close inspection, we decided to bring her to the vet ( with a urine sample). She was diagnosed with UTI, her urine contained a lot of crystal oxalate, white blood cells but no blood cell at all. She was put on antibiotics and Xrays where taken. The vet recommend that the stone be removed surgically as his suspicion is crystal oxalate stone according to the urinalysis. He also put her on Royal Canin urinary S/O diet.
Our concern is: Our sheltie has no other signs or symptoms. She drinks, eat, plays, urinate normally.
Do we really need to put her through major surgery or should we do the diet, and wait and see?

Follow up
we had another set of xrays taken and the vet recommended the removal of the stone ( he tought he saw a stone)There were NO stones in her bladder, what they thought was a stone on the xrays was a mucosal fold, like hyperplasia Vet says that the crystal caused that from all the irritation they were causing. He irrigated her bladder really well, and flushed all the crystals out of there. He said we did the right thing going ahead with surgery (if it had been his dog, that's what he would have done) because he got to flush the bladder getting rid of the crystals, something that might have not been entirely possible with diet alone. Now that she's on the diet, this will prevent any future formation of stones or further crystals hopefully With this surgery, we probably prevented stones.
He said if we didn't do the surgery we would have spent much more money chasing after something that wasn't even there in the first place. Even if we had done the ultrasound, and they wouldn't have seen a stone that wasn't there, his recommendation would still have been exploratory surgery.

bottom line, we could have not done it and she would have been fine except that the crystals irritating her vulva would have taken much much longer to flush or not flush at all.
After all this.... did we do the right thing? we only followed our vets trusted advice. I'm not at all sure about all of this now.

we wondered about the water behing the cause of our dog's crystal oxalate too. We give her softened water. could that contribute to it?
the well water without the softner is too hard. Should we just give her bottled water?

I live in Ontario Canada
which better food would you recommend for crystal oxalate?

lexilu

It's been awhile since we have all posted about this topic - just wanted to know how all was going with your pup's struvite crystals, and to give an update on Lexi. After two rounds of antibiotics, and a couple of food changes, I can finally say that she is crystal-free at our latest urinalysis. Here's what I am doing. Switched to Wellnes Core (low fat), and add about 1/8+ cup water and a couple tablespoons of Eagle Pack Holistic Select canned food (more moisture). Not sure if this is a permanent solution, but since Lexi doesn't drink water - at least I know she's getting some H2O this way

Kathyy

Glad she is doing fine. I found this little calculator online and make sure I put this much water in Sassy daily.http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/h2o.htm It helps a lot. I did have to move to three meals a day as she cannot hold all that water in her stomach in only two meals!

violadivah

Hi Everyone,
I am new to this forum so please excuse any ignorance. I have become worried for my Jack Russell as after urinating throughout the house, multiple times I took him to vet and it appears he has a UTI and crystals in his Urine!

He has a high number Calcium Phosphate & Calcium Oxalate crystals. I was told he must follow a regimented diet of Hill's S/D Prescription Food. I have been researching non-stop and many seem to disprove this type of food and use Wellness Core or similar.

He is on antibiotics now for the infection and I guess I will start to use this food unless I hear a similar experience that has improved.

I am new and any advice would be greatly appreciated...

LindaL

Hello,
I'm new here and found this forum while trying to figure out the whole issue with struvite crystals. I see the last post was in October, I hope someone is around who has some advice---I'm frantic trying to find an answer. I've read so much online that everything seems to be conflicting, and now I'm so confused I don't know which way to go.

I rescued my 8 year old female Maltese in early December and the (insert nasty word ) "owner" sent her to me along with a bladder stone the size of a small chicken egg. Apparently she was treated for a bladder infection in July before the stone was discovered in October. My "Annie" had it removed but as far as I know was put back on regular dry food. I took her to my Vet and he put her on antibiotics for 10 days and Royal Canin SO food. Like someone else here, he says she needs to stay on it for the rest of her life to keep crystals from forming.

After reading through these posts, I'm concerned about the food. The protein level is 14%, chicken by-products and egg. To me it smells chemical and like grain. She seems "off" but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Her coat is coarse, dull, and keeps breaking off and she keeps licking, chewing, and pulling chunks of hair around her genitals. She was used as a breeder and her female parts are very distended. The Vet said she was OK, just overused as a breeder.

Over the last 40 years we have had many dogs and cats, and the dogs were all fed generic grocery store dry food. They all lived to ripe old age and were healthy with good teeth. Reading the posts on the Internet it sounds pretty amazing---guess we were lucky.

Annie is my first "small" dog, our last was 120 pounds, so this is a new experience for me all the way around! Maybe I worry too much, but she just doesn't seem "on." We have a large back yard and at least twice a day we run all over the yard. She runs so fast she's a white streak and ends up winded (as she should!), so I think she's getting the exercise she needs. She seems to drink about 1/2-3/4 cup of water a day.

I'm thinking I need to change her food, the last couple days she has cut way back on her eating. I feed her 1 cup a day, half in AM and half in PM. She's picky and doesn't like any snacks. She did like "PLAIN" Milkbones, but now doesn't want those either.

Before I change the food, I want to test the pH of her urine to see if it is acidic like I was told it should be---but where do you find the pH strips (other than online)? The pharmacies used to carry them but none around me do anymore. Should I be checking it?

Her "poop" is also very hard and she strains to pass it--reminds me at times of a rabbit. I give her raw pumpkin several times a week with a little plain yogurt mixed in (she won't eat the pumpkin plain). It seems to help a little.

PLEASE help, I'm really worried about her and not sure what to do. Is there a consensus on what the best food is to prevent the crystals? Where do I find the test strips?

Sorry to jump in with problems without introducing, but to me this is like having a new baby in the house with no experience. Not sure what to do or where to begin. I'm not able to make her food, I'm disabled and can hardly cook for myself.

I would be SO grateful for anything that would make this less confusing. I need some answers. I've grown so fond of her already I don't want to do anything that might make things worse.

Can anyone help? I'm lost!

Thanks, I'm sure you must all know how I'm feeling---she's become my baby

Most Gratefully,
Linda L

Snuggles

We feeds ours Royal Canin Urinanary which I imagine is what yours is on. She has not had any hair problems or anything. Of course sometimes she sneaks the other dogs food but more often the other dog eats hers.

We also wondered about the cheaper dogs foods that we have fed dogs in the past. These dogs were all right also and lived to about thirteen. Maybe it is a small dog thing, I don't know.

LindaL

Thanks, how long has your dog been on it? Most of what I have read doesn't give it a very positive rating.

Me thinks there is too much information out there . I know I should just trust my Vet, but being "fussy" about food has never been an issue. The last thing I need though is a huge bill for another stone removal---and apparently once they have them they are prone to more.

From what I was able to gleen from reading, the protein in food for dogs with crystals should be between 18% and 25%---that seems like a big range, and the RC is at 14%.

I just want to start having fun with her and stop worrying so much .

Thanks again, I hope others who are dealing with this will share their experiences, too. Thanks also for having this forum---I learned more here than anywhere else I looked!

Puppy Hugs,
Linda L

Snuggles

My dog has been on it a little over a year. She is the smaller dog in my pictures.

elenajas

THIS post is for LindaL, Lexilu, Joyfulsoul, and other STRUVITE posters~

Dear Lexilu,
Im glad to here that your regimen is working. An idea to get your dog to drink (my foster refused to drink too), is to put the water --if you feed twice a day then use half her daily water requirement--in with her dry kibble (but not if she doesnt eat it right away--and if she doesnt you should work on that)--and that way she is forced to drink the water to get to the kibble. dogs arent too good at bobbing for kibble, and it forces them to drink the water to reach the kibble. Its a neat trick. That or you can entice her with a little bit of low sodium broth in some water---always enticing. It sounds like you are doing the water in the food thing already--but feel free too split up and give her the full requirement of water she needs. If you think it is too much, then feed her 3 times a day so you can have water in each meal. The Core is an excellent food, and the wet is another great way to get a little extra moisture in them. You can always add a cranberry pill too if you are worried--and yes, that IS a permanent solution, it may need tweaking over time, but you can always try the cran pills, the berry balance (solid gold supplement), or distilled water in the future if you have problems.

Dear Joyfulsoul,

Brita is NOT the same as distilled water. It is slightly better than tap, but not the same as distilled. She may just have a sensitivity to the cran pills. Are you feeding them after food or on an empty stomach? id try with food. if that doesnt work, try a different brand. Sometimes people are sensitive to the vehicle the meds/vitamins are in--for example One a Day vitamins makes me throw up, but im fine on centrum. If that doesnnt work, try the berry balance from Solid gold.

Dear LindaL,

LindaL, and other posters, this is long, and covers food like RC and Linda's issues, but I ask you to read the whole thing, it will help.

First things first, you have a Maltese, which unless it is mixed with something large is a small dog. 1 cup a day is far too much food, and overfeeding inherently causes problems--such as constipation, and the straining you are talking about. The pumpkin is helping b/c it works as a fix all for constipation and diahrrea but still, you can use the pumpkin, but your first problem is over feeding.

I assume you are feeding the Royal Canin Urinary SO 14 food. The first thing that strikes me is that this food is recommended for dogs with struvite and oxalate issues--which are two very different kinds of crystals and which have two very different treatments. There is nothing "wrong" with Royal Canin food, just as there is nothing "wrong" with grocery brands. However, think of it in people terms, some people have good genes and can eat junk and smoke and drink and live till they are 102. Others who don't have such great genes are greatly effected by diet, and become ill, their health suffers, they get diabetes, or other diseases that shorten and affect not only their appearance, but their lifespan and the ailments they develop as they age. Same with dogs. For example, my Daisy is a JRT, she ate grocery before I got her, and even after switching to a better quality food she didnt appear much different. She was always soft, and looked muscular. She did have smaller poops, no more eye gunk, and maybe a tiny bit more sheen, but overall, not much difference on the outside. Meanwhile, my Salvatore, who I adopted came to me with dull dry coarse fur, and dry flaky skin that had him covered in dandruff. His coat was so rough the vet tech said to me, oh he can't have any min pin in him, he is too rough and coarse, min pins are shiny. He also had no belly fur. Well, 3 weeks after being switched to a better quality food, he not only grew in a thick coat of belly fur, but his coat was smooth, silky, soft, and dandruff free--and a few months later the same vet tech blew me away when she said "oh is he mixed with min pin." So, there you have it, Daisy has great genes, and isnt much affected on the outside, and Sal was. But the outside isnt really the issue--the inside is. The outside is merely the often only indicator of health that we have. We dont know what is going on inside, but the indications I saw in Sal showed me that there is a difference.

Now, does this mean that your grocery food, or Royal Canin are bad foods, or going to hurt your dog? No, not necessarily. Just like some people can smoke till they are 90 and be fine and others can get lung cancer when they never were a smoker. A lot is about genes. I feed a better quality food b/c I feel that while I cannot change their genes, I can do something about what I put into them. Its that saying, crap in, crap out--and you are what you eat. Dogs are oportunistic carnivores, and should be eating a meat heavy diet. If you look at a grocery brand, or Royal Canin, you will see usually chicken listed first, and then lots of grains and things like corn. Well, that is the list BEFORE they take the water out, done by weight. Chicken before it is dehydrated has a lot of water, and therefore is heavy. when you take the water out, the chicken drops way down on the list, usually to #5 or #6, and that essentially means that the food is a corn based food with a little chicken in it. Corn was never a food that dogs were meant to eat. If you ran out of food for your dog, what would you think to cook him---a piece of chicken or open a can of corn? Corn is also an extremely common allergen for dogs, and can cause the itching and scratching some complain of. So, it isnt that these are terrible foods, but that they are made not really for what dogs were meant to eat. That being said, any food is better than no food and your dog no matter what food you feed is lucky to have a loving home.

Now there are foods on the market that are meat based, and which have no corn at all. These are the foods I used when I saw the difference in Sal. Some are more expensive, but there are also some middle ground foods that are not very expensive at all. Additionally, you feed less quantity of these foods than you do of the grocery brands as it is more densly packed with nutrition, so while you might be buying your second bag of grocery, Ill still be on my first of the other stuff. What you feed your dog is up to you.

On to LindaL's problem specifically, Linda besides feeding too much, you are feeding Royal Canin (RC) with little good results. Sounds like your maltese, is like my Sal. And while overbreeding can take it out of a dog and prematurely age them, older dogs can still look amazing, have soft shiny coats, and dont have to be dull and coarse. Clearly RC isnt working for you, and while it may be a "urinary food", I believe it is not really needed. the RC says to feed 3/4 cup- 1 1/3 cup a day for 5-10 lbs. I dont know how much your maltese weighs, but I do know she is 8years old and doesn't need as many calories as say a 2 year old would. The RC claims to have extra moisture and things support making the urine acidic--which is great, but giving your dog extra liquid and good food would do the same thing.

LindaL, i dont know where you can find urine pH strips locally, it depends where you live and who carries what there. Id suggest going online and getting some. If you read my previous posts you can see that there are ways to manage struvite crystals effectively without "prescription" foods. Sadly, the presription foods like RC and Science diet are mostly the same as the regular foods they carry, with few real differences except a higher price tag and label.

You can read my past posts on the topic, but in a nutshell, you need to increase liquids, keep the urine acidic, and see if that helps. The itching could be an allergy, but id work on the struvite thing first. Since you may have an allergy and struvite issue, if you want, try the Wellness SIMPLE SOLUTIONS--it has very few ingredients, and is a good food. You can also try California naturals, or Natural balance's Allergy food. All three are good for allergies, and are foods made without corn (a known allergen), and are formulated to help with allergies. You should also increase liquid intake. I do this by either putting a tiny bit of low sodium broth with some water to entice them to drink and then slowly reduce the amount of broth as they get accustomed to drinking more. OR, I add the water to their dry food so that to get to the food they have to drink the liquid first--or get real good at bobbing for kibbble! Increased water is essential for keeping the urinary tract clear. You also need to add supplements, either Solid Gold's Berry Balance, or start out trying just cranberry supplements, 1-2 per day for the urinary tract. You should be monitoring with the pH strips to make sure it is acidic, (you can always try another one of the foods I suggested if you arent gettiing the acidic readings after a month or so), and you can touch the urine--if it feels sandy, there are crystals. lastly if you still need more, you can use distilled water instead of regular water, and that with the berry balance/cran pills (or both if you have a very bad case) are usually enough to control it. I know many dogs with bad struvites that are controlled with diet, liquid intake, cran/berry balance, and distilled water. Sure it takes some work but it is worth it.

I would strongly suggest switching foods, as your RC clearly isnt clearing anyth8ing up for her, and she sounds miserable. You can also ad a tiny bit of fish oil (human grade), or olive oil (like a teaspoon a day) to her food to help with her coat. The food will help that too.

Good luck. Message me if needed.

elenajas

LASTLY--
Origen is an excellent food--one of the best, but you always need to have lots of liquid--most dogs and people dont get nearly enough as they should. there are lots of calculators online to figure out how much your dog should be drinking. Do a few, and make sure your dog is getting that.
Innova is also a good food, it is a grain inclusive food, made by Natura, the same people who make Evo and California Naturals--foods that vets often love. I dont know why a vet would tell you to stay away, but keep this in mind:
1. Guess who gives the nutrition training in vet school? Hills.
2. Vets are like your regular doc, you wouldnt go to your regular doc for detailed nutrition advice-you would see a nutritionist.
3. Check around, there is a lot of differences in vets--vets in some areas are stuck in old ways, and havent done research or arent engaged in the new research and info concerning dog nutrition. Some are. There is a changing tide though, and vets are becoming more knowledgeable about nutrition and the food ingredients--however these things are hard to change, and take time. So really, Im not surprised, rumors and bad info are often spread, and like the old doc my mom still goes to who gives her some outdated advice, not everyone is as up to date as others. Keep that in mind. The proof is in the pudding, there are tons of dogs who have their struvite crystals managed by the regimen above, and who also look and are healthy.

Good luck everyone!

anneh

Hi, I am very interestedin this topic. I am seeking to adopt a second dog and found a sweet one but then was told she had struvite crystals when taken in to rescue and had to have surgery and then was put on Science Diet After that apparently she was leaking urine and was put on Prion My main concern is whether its normal for a dog to leak urine after that surgery? The rescue person is slowly taking her off Prion. I feed my dogs a homemade diet so I know I can tailor one for her plus give distilled water/cranberry etc but am most concerned about whether she might have permanent leaking problems. Thanks for input anneh