So I brought this kitten home...

RBark · 12-19-2007, 10:12 PM

Local wildlife is far more important than a cats desire to roam. If you think cats should be free then don't get a cat. Many local wildlife have gone extinct or bordering on it courtesy of cats. That is cruel to think that is OK just because cats should roam.

Ryn · 12-20-2007, 02:43 AM

In my opionion all animals are equal, obviously not in yours!

RBark · 12-20-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryn

In my opionion all animals are equal, obviously not in yours!

There's nothing equal about bringing a new predator which has no predators (cats, in this instance) into anew ecosystem.

If all animals are equal, I expect zero complaints from everyone when I set my Husky loose to roam. You will have at least two crying families per day. Just one Husky can kill at least 700 cats per year. Is that equal treatment? You going to just shrug it off when my Husky eats your cat?

Its the same thing you are doing to your wildlife by allowing your cat outdoors. The ecosystem doesn't have the resources neccessary to support the influx of new predators that multiply as fast as cats do, let alone the people that let their cats outdoors.

Most people are just saying cats should be outdoors because they think their cat deserves more than every other animal out there. Let the coyotes get their numbers back, and I assure you there will be more indoor cats. Its really sad that people don't care about the animals that lived on the land for thousands of years before us. As if human enroachment of land wasn't bad enough.

Ryn · 12-20-2007, 08:48 AM

That's the whole point we do care. I meant what gives humans the right to think they are better than any other animal and completely take over. It must be great to be so righteous!

RBark · 12-20-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryn

That's the whole point we do care. I meant what gives humans the right to think they are better than any other animal and completely take over. It must be great to be so righteous!

I really have no clue what you mean by this. We have no right to think we are better than any other animal. However as a being that creates nothing but havoc on the environment, we must police our damage. If you feel that we have no right to contain a cat, then you similarly have no right to bring in a cat.

What you are saying is essentially the same as me saying I can adopt a Lion and bring it home, and allow it to free roam my house and the neighborhood. That is a definite wrong thing to do. Nobody would question it, so the answer is to leave it in it's native habitat.

If you feel that one should not contain a cat, and similarly we have no right to let a predator loose on the land, we must not bring it into our area and leave them where they came from. Then one would say the same for all animals, that humans have no right to have pets. If you feel that way, then PETA wants you! Join them!

I do not, however, feel that way. I feel having pets is ok as long as it is not inhumane to the pet, and are shown a lot of love. Hence, I keep my dogs contained to me at all times, my cats contained to the house with outdoor fully fenced access they can't escape from, my snakes in their cages.

It's not a choice of "let a cat roam indoor/outdoor and destroy the ecosystem because I thought it was OK", the question is "can I bring the animal in and not have it interfere with the ecosystem more than I already have?". If the answer to that is no, and if you let it roam it is a NO, then you do not have a cat.

So yes, you're right, we have no right to make choices for the wildlife or pet. So hopefully you live by your words and have no pets!

Ryn · 12-20-2007, 11:16 AM

Actully I do have a cat who I love to bits and she doesn't go out, so yes I'm as guilty as you and hate myself for being so SELFISH and not living by my words. I do feel very sad about this and hate to see her looking out of the window watching the neighbours cats enjoying themselves outside. My fiance' and son think that I am evil keeping her in.

As for keeping a lion, it is a totally different story as thankfully we haven't tried to domesticate or imprison them YET.

Anyway it seems as though we have different opinions about this. Probably as the majority of people in the UK like to let their cats out. Thankfully I do understand that people are allowed to have different opinions.

RBark · 12-20-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryn

Actully I do have a cat who I love to bits and she doesn't go out, so yes I'm as guilty as you and hate myself for being so SELFISH and not living by my words. I do feel very sad about this and hate to see her looking out of the window watching the neighbours cats enjoying themselves outside. My fiance' and son think that I am evil keeping her in.

As for keeping a lion, it is a totally different story as thankfully we haven't tried to domesticate or imprison them YET.

Anyway it seems as though we have different opinions about this. Probably as the majority of people in the UK like to let their cats out. Thankfully I do understand that people are allowed to have different opinions.

Hey I never said you have to agree with me! You expressed your opinion and I retorted with mine.

Perhaps it may be better not to contain any animal because I really can't think of a single animal that is not a roamer, except maybe some kind of stationary bug like a spider. Huskies are nomads, always living on the go. I do whatever I can to allow him that. But domestication is a fact of life that has already happened. I personally feel that as long as I provide my cats warmth, food, water, and love.. They are happy here. I don't think if they understood the risks they take by going outside, they would choose to do so. I think the cat will rather be with me for 18 years than risk getting hit by a car within 3 years, or eaten, starved, diseased, and so on. Same goes for Ollie.

Ollie has been to more places in his short time with me than most people can hope to see in their lifetime. Do I think he would trade that to roam if he understood the possible consequences? I think probably not.

What is the absolute right thing to do for our pets? I don't know. But I do know that we have no right to allow our pets to destroy the environment for our selfish wishes, as domestication was a choice by mankind not the animals.

Of course, just my opinion.

Ryn · 12-20-2007, 01:18 PM

"as domestication was a choice by mankind not the animals."

Yes your statement says it all!!!

poppiesandboppies · 12-21-2007, 10:49 AM

It is true that cats are horrible for the ecosystem (they're hunting machines!)...if my cat went outside, and if it wasn't so fat and lazy then I'd make sure it has a loud bell on its collar, but I mean if you live in an urban area where there ecosystem solely consists of pigeons and sparrows and there's no backyard full of lizards etc then there's probably not much harm done?
I personally don't think there's nothing cruel about domesticating animals and keeping them confined. If it was me, I'd prefer to stay in a secure space where food and TLC is guaranteed all the time rather than run around god knows where facing competition, predators etc on a regular basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrissyBz

I'm particularly surprised by the comments from NZ about the prevailing attitudes there considering all the damage that has already been done to indigenous species there due the the importation and release of non-native sp. in NZ and Australia both.

You'd think so huh...our endogenous bird species are declining so fast...yet my friends still tell me stories of how their cats bring them a bird a day *sigh*

Wow cool it merges double posts! That's amazing! Does it merge triple posts?

Dutchie · 12-21-2007, 02:32 PM

I would have a no kill rescue lined up for the next time you find him outside. If he gets a good home soon he will be a very nice inside cat with great life- he needs to be dewormed and have a flea preventative on him. THe fleas can really hurt him and cause tapeworm. The junk around the eyes need to be handeled by a vet with anitbiotics and ointment for the eyes.

peace36 · 12-22-2007, 03:20 PM

I lived in Florida about 10 yrs ago and had a problem with the neighbors many cats running free. Finally I decided I would just keep catching them and bringing them to animal control and give them the neighbors phone # so they the neighbors would either have to take responsiblility and care for thier cats or keep paying a fine to get them out.

Willowy · 12-23-2007, 01:12 AM

I can't possibly believe that cats are such a horrible threat to wildlife. My cats do stay inside, for their own safety, but there are a LOT of feral/stray/free-roaming cats in the small town I live in, and there are also plenty of squirrels, rabbits, and birds. Sometimes too many, really, especially if you have a garden. I always keep a pan of cat food on my porch, and I know of at least 3 cats that eat from it regularly (feral, and I can't catch them), but yet there are always a bunch of little bunnies running around in my yard. I frequently find nests of baby bunnies while mowing, and they always manage to grow up and overrun the place.

My mom has 2 indoor-outdoor cats who are avid hunters, and they always bring their prey home to show off. They rarely get birds, their main prey are gophers and field mice, sometimes bunnies. I guarantee you nobody is upset about the loss of a few gophers. In fact, most of the neighbors have gopher traps in their yards, and one particular neighbor shoots the rabbits in his garden with an air rifle (silent, so he doesn't get caught shooting in town). I think your average suburban human is more of a threat to wildlife than your average cat. I've personally killed more birds with my car than the cats get, and I try to avoid hitting animals. Most people don't even try to avoid them, so presumably they kill more than that.

Now, by my own observations (I'm sure nobody has done a study), cats who are de-clawed get more birds than clawed cats do. I assume this is because mice are hard to hold onto if you're missing the last joints of your digits, and birds are easy to kill. But, then, de-clawed cats should not be outside at all anyway, they're easy prey for cat-aggressive dogs and wild animals.

ChrissyBz · 12-23-2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willowy

I can't possibly believe that cats are such a horrible threat to wildlife. My cats do stay inside, for their own safety, but there are a LOT of feral/stray/free-roaming cats in the small town I live in, and there are also plenty of squirrels, rabbits, and birds. Sometimes too many, really, especially if you have a garden. I always keep a pan of cat food on my porch, and I know of at least 3 cats that eat from it regularly (feral, and I can't catch them), but yet there are always a bunch of little bunnies running around in my yard. I frequently find nests of baby bunnies while mowing, and they always manage to grow up and overrun the place.

My mom has 2 indoor-outdoor cats who are avid hunters, and they always bring their prey home to show off. They rarely get birds, their main prey are gophers and field mice, sometimes bunnies. I guarantee you nobody is upset about the loss of a few gophers. In fact, most of the neighbors have gopher traps in their yards, and one particular neighbor shoots the rabbits in his garden with an air rifle (silent, so he doesn't get caught shooting in town). I think your average suburban human is more of a threat to wildlife than your average cat. I've personally killed more birds with my car than the cats get, and I try to avoid hitting animals. Most people don't even try to avoid them, so presumably they kill more than that.

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusferalcats.htm

Willowy, I agree with your threat assessment of the suburban human, however.I think you may find this article of interest. I can find you more if you're interested.

Mdawn · 12-24-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppiesandboppies

I think it depends on the cat itself, for example, Peaches is a jumpy, shy cat who just wouldn't be savvy around strangers, cars etc, she's inactive, just likes to lay around, she is a better candidate for staying inside than an overly active, curious cat who loves to roam.

I have 3 cats myself and one of them is very jumpy and skittish. I don't allow him outside at all. We used to let him out during the day to play but he kept getting himself in trouble, such has climbing up the tallest trees he could find and not wanting/scared to come back down. Getting lost and not able to find is way back home. I found him one time yowling in my neighbor's hay field, obviously confused about where he was. It just wasn't worth his safety. My other two cats are a little, I hate to say, smarter and stay right in the yard and I don't really have a problem with them hanging out outside for a few hours during the day if its nice out. I have no trouble getting them back in when its time. Again, I do this because they don't go any further than my front yard and usually hang out on my kitchen roof, watching the birds. We have an old wooden ladder propped against the side of the house for them to get on the roof. I just call for them when its time to come in and down they come, ready for their dinner. If it wasn't a safe situation for them to be outside, I wouldn't hesitate to keep them inside 24/7. Their safety is of the utmost importance to me, not their desire to roam.

As a matter of fact, one of our cats, Fred, used to be a strictly outdoor cat until recently. We had a scare with him involving a coyote one night and that quickly put an end to his nighttime roaming. All three are inside, safe and sound, before its dark now.